TerryCzap Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Does someone contract cancer because of the sins they have committed? There are thousands of reasons for illness. Sin is only one of them and is fairly low on the list. Ailments such as cancer are only a symptom, demonstrating that the body (including the mind) is not functioning properly. Most diseases (dis-ease) are created in the mind by worry, stress, guilt and a host of other borrowed troubles. Some aspects of disease are due to the way one eats and lives. Does anyone at Strong City ever suffer from any illness? Yes, we are all quite ill. The body begins dying just as soon as it is born. It just takes a while to go back to the dirt from which it came. On the other hand, most of us rarely get sick (colds, flue, etc.) because we have discarded the foods which help create sickness, such as meat and dairy products. One of our members had a very serious tumor in her breast, treated it holistically and recovered. Many years later her cancer came back and it is still with her. She is somewhat of a walking miracle though, as she should have died more than a year ago. She felt in her heart she did not want any medical treatments (not even holistic) and has done none to herself since that decision, yet she still happily lives on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Terry, The lack of disease is to do with your diet not your sinlessness? Why should your walking miracle have been dead more than a year ago? Was this on professional medical advice? If so, are you not confusing the fallibility of humans (i.e. the doctor getting it wrong) with the occurence of a miracle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 And these are your words? Truly Travesser has offended many. He has come to bring a sword, and not peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCzap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 is sarcasm in the bible? Yes, it is, but that is not what I was doing. And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. 1Ki 18:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCzap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 And these are your words? Truly Travesser has offended many. He has come to bring a sword, and not peace. Yes, I believe they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I'm a bit late on this post so firstly Hi , I hope you appreciate the type of site this is and that banter is part and parcel of it ... It would be very easy to post many a flipant reply to a post like your's but fair play to you , you have your beliefs and are proud to defend them so for that you are to be respected , I doubt you'll change anyone's mind here though , we are a stubborn lot ,some have made 20,000 posts and still yet to conceed they are wrong :-) however I have some questions , based on your posts ... When the Christ came 2000 years ago he was made to look like a mad man is there any evidence to suggest he did come ? I mean my wife has read 7 books about Harry Potter books but that doesn't make him real ..factual evidence for Jesus being the son of God ,other than blind faith , is zero I have accepted by faith that Michael did all that he did because God told him to do it but didn't god also in theory give man "free will" , which would then allow man to say NO ... lets say as an EXAMPLE ( with no hint of fact) that Hitler was doing God's work , maybe getting revenge on the jews who betrayed christ ,would that in your eyes allow you to forgive / defend Hitler becuase he was doing as God told him ?? Both the new and old testament are full of terms such as "husband" "bride" "marriage supper" "wise and foolish virgin" it' also says that sex was the original sin (adam and Eve) ..hence the reason for the "virgin " birth as it did not befit the holy spirit to produce such an effect or to ecite any movement of passion ..in otherwords the virgin birth is to quench the fire of original sin ..or does Michael follow the other Bible practise of sleeping with his daughters like Lot ..the same daughters he offered to an angry mob who wanted to rape his 2 male house guests , Gen 19:6-8 and I've only got as far as page 4 of this thread ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanifa Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Hello I am new to this forum also but not to the controversy that is raging over Michael Travesser and Strong City. For those of you who have questions, this blog holds answers: strongcity.info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCzap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I don't think I have accused him of being a monster I wrote the post referring in a general manner to those who feel Michael should be killed, maimed, prosecuted, investigated, scolded or imprisoned. and I simply asked you if you were open to the possibility that you had been lied to The lie concept was also what I was addressing. I don't know the truth and that is why I have been asking you questions, why I have spent some time reading what your leader has posted previously on the internet and what other followers have posted on other threads. I certainly cannot know your motives, but often those who do not want to believe in a God, simply want to debate the issue. They are not seeking anything but to prove themselves right (self righteousness). I may be wrong, but your comments and post strike me as one who walks lthat kind of path. I believe in my heavenly Father and am not interested in bantering for the sake of bantering. I am not saying that Michael IS a false christ, I am saying that I believe him not to be the Messiah. But belief does not equate to truth and therein lies my problem with your assertions. If you believe that my friend is not The Messiah, then you simply believe he is a false Christ. This is as simple as calling something that quacks, a duck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCzap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 From tony29I'm a bit late on this post so firstly Hi , I hope you appreciate the type of site this is and that banter is part and parcel of it ... It would be very easy to post many a flipant reply to a post like your's but fair play to you , you have your beliefs and are proud to defend them so for that you are to be respected , I doubt you'll change anyone's mind here though , we are a stubborn lot ,some have made 20,000 posts and still yet to conceed they are wrong however I have some questions , based on your posts ... Hi tony, I fished out a post I made a couple days ago on this thread. I decided to pull it out and keep it in my back pocked for the those who want to debate the existance of God and the merits of creation. I am interested in discussing the topic of this thread and the principles related to it however. I will respect any man and leave him to his own stubbornness, even to his own detriment. I am not interested in debate, for the sake of debate. It is a waste of energy. I would much rather go and walk the land and watch the deer cavort in the canyons, or watch the towhee dance in the weeds as they look for food. This is profitable. Wrestling to “prove” something to someone who thinks it is not provable, and does not want to have it proved to him, is like trying to turn a 50 ton rock upside down all by myself. I will wait for the earthquake, or the flood to do it’s work. Many a large bolder gets overturned when the flash flood strikes it. There is an old saying “there are no atheist in trenches” during a war. I’ll leave these souls in the hands of their Maker. He knows when and how to shake a man to his core and bring him down low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 strongcity.info interesting on that site that your Messiah states "A perverted soul will smoke or drink alcohol" now correct me if I wrong but didn't Jesus drink wine ..didn't his desciples drink wine so was Jesus the bad apple of the family ? ..... Michaels' perverted distant cousin if you will ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCzap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Many years ago, kings had a thousand wives, today a person would be jailed for it. The consumption of alcohol was an acceptable behavior in its day. That day has passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Hi tony, I fished out a post I made a couple days ago on this thread. I decided to pull it out and keep it in my back pocked for the those who want to debate the existance of God and the merits of creation. I am interested in discussing the topic of this thread however. Quote: I will respect any man and leave him to his own stubbornness, even to his own detriment. Also I am not interested in debate, for the sake of debate. It is a waste of energy. I would much rather go and walk the land and watch the deer cavort in the canyons, or watch the towhee dance in the weeds as they look for food. This is profitable. Wrestling to “prove” something to someone who thinks it is not provable, and does not want to have it proved to him, is like trying to turn a 50 ton rock upside down all by myself. I will wait for the earthquake, or the flood to do it’s work. Many a large bolder gets overturned when the flash flood strikes it. There is an old saying “there are no atheist in trenches” during a war. I’ll leave these souls in the hands of their Maker. He knows when and how to shake a man to his core and bring him down low. but that is just a cop out ..the post has moved on and my questions are all in the broad context of this topic .. all you're saying is I don't have the answer to your arguement therefore i'll ignore your argument and hope you go away .. doubting jesus was the son of God doesn't make one an atheist by the way but if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanifa Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 In reading the debate on this issue here as well as on many other forums and blogs over the past few days, the conclusion that cannot help but blare out its message is that a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. If a soul has Father's Spirit, it becomes evident in the first few sentences they share no matter what they are asking/saying. If the soul has another spirit, that becomes evident immediately also. There is a reason why the Son of God, during His first appearing, said, ".....I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes." Matthew 11:25 Children, whether they be so in body or in spirit, believe all things, (as the scriptures say of Love), while the "wise" question and are never satisfied, even when sufficient evidence has been presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCzap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Tony, What I am saying is debating (for the sake of debating) the existence of God, and if the idea of creation can be believed, if for those who like to bang their heads against rocks. Some people like it... I’m past that stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Many years ago, kings had a thousand wives, today a person would be jailed for it. The consumption of alcohol was an acceptable behavior in its day. That day has passed. indeed , There once was also a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. That time was called the Dark Ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 the conclusion that cannot help but blare out its message is that a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. and by that you are including yourself i hope .... Hmmmm , but you see I beg to differ .. I can make up my own mind , from TerryCzap and even Michaels own words ..they cannot as they can only do God's bidding What I am saying is debating (for the sake of debating) the existence of God so instead we just take your word for it , blind faith ..correct me if I'm wrong but that's a very one sided arguement and adds nothing to the forum ..The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike my questions were also about free will , God's bidding and original sin , so even if you want to ignore my questionning the evidence for Jesus , surely the other 2 questions are answerable or up for debate .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted December 21, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2007 Terry, These questions are impertinent and personal. If you don't want to answer them, please feel free not to. Do you believe your wife still loves you? Do you think she might one day be welcomed back into the fold? When she left and you were forced into a choice between the path you have chosen and all that was left behind, was there doubt? If you were to leave strong city would your wife welcome your return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCzap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 All quotes are from Jonah-man Earlier in the thread you shot someone down for guaranteeing that Michael was not the Messiah. I would like to know how you have the right to guarantee that Michael is the Messiah? The man cannot guarantee this because he does not know what Michael was told. He is only exercising his vain imagination. I am exercising my faith by claiming that Michael is who he says he is. No, this cannot be guaranteed. I am only excersizing my faith that what Michael tells me is true. Some people have this faith, some don’t. Have you seen Michael perform a miracle along the same lines as the ones performed by Jesus e.g. turning water into wine? (I certainly don't believe that creating a community where people get along can be classed as a miracle) Yes, I’ve seen miracles. One of our members was healed of a broken foot. Another woman was healed of an issue of blood that she had had for years. Does that make you believe in him? I clipped out a response from Michael about the “question” of miracles. He answered: “Can we get real??? Is there any greater miracle than for a 66 year old man being asked for intimacy by young women when the 66 year old man never intimated that or thought of it? Just choose your miracle. Were the miracles of Jesus just group think? If miracles convinced people, would not the Jews have been convinced by the miracles of Jesus? You said that you would believe if a limb were restored by me. No you would not. I once prayed for a young boy who lost his eye when a little friend threw a stick into it. The physician in charge told me the boy’s eye had been destroyed. The stick had gone clear into the cones and mutilated it. When the boy was released from the hospital, I prayed for him and anointed him. The hospital took his bandage off when he returned for a check up and his eye was fully restored, even to better sight than the non damaged one. You see, miracles are for those who see them and understand them, but you will not believe though I raise someone from the dead. It makes no difference. It is the truth that converts, and not miracles. It is the Spirit Who causes one to see reality and not outward signs.” 1. Was the news that Michael set a new date (December 15th) true? This was a fabrication by the film maker and has been addressed numbers times previously. This would be easily provable in even the most corrupt courts of our day. 2. Jeff stated that he was not a good person. I was wondering if you could describe what Jeff had done? . Yes, you can probably relate to it. Jeff was was born into this world. Jesus said “No man is good”. Everyone is capable of being a Charles Mason, a Hitler, a Tony Blair or a George Bush. 3. How many of the girls actually got naked and lay with Michael? How old were these girls. You would have to ask him about that. There are means of contacting him on the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanifa Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 and by that you are including yourself i hope .... Of course. When I hear the Voice of God, whatever vessel it comes out of, I listen. When I hear the voice of an adversary, whatever vessel it comes out of, I don't. .. I can make up my own mind , from TerryCzap and even Michaels own words ..they cannot as they can only do God's bidding I made up my own mind many years ago. I chose to give myself over to God for His purposes. In the eyes of the world, that has cost me dearly. From heaven looking back, I would not change my decision. Yes, all we can do is the bidding of Pure Love. What a sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 When I hear the voice of an adversary, whatever vessel it comes out of, I don't. He that will not reason is a bigot, he that cannot reason is a fool , he that dares not reason is a slave From heaven looking back, I would not change my decision. Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain and presumptuous desire for a second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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