futumtch Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I wish to ask some hypothetical questions. At 66 years of age the vessel of Wayne Bent is no spring chicken. What will happen if/when he passes on? Will Michael re-ascend, perhaps taking his followers with him (all 70 or so of them)? What would this 2nd coming have achieved with 6.5 billion others seemingly unaware of this event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Futumtch, What will happen if/when he passes on? That's really up to God because He is the one who anointed him for this present work in the first place. Personally, he will not be passing on into the grave. What would this 2nd coming have achieved with 6.5 billion others seemingly unaware of this event? This event isn't over yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Snowychap, I recently listen to a talk about this and I will try to make it short. The world is full of languages. Not only the different spoken languages and their written symbols, but computer language too. These are all for the purpose of communication and storage of information. Every language has its mutually agreed upon symbols between the sender and the recipient so that information is communicated correctly. Our alphabet has 26 characters, asci text has 2 characters. The DNA in your chromosomes is a recorded language also. There are 4 characters in that language. in the smallest living thing there are about a half million characters in its code. like a book may have several hundred thousand letters in its pages. The human code has about three billion letters comprising its information, in each cell. Every language comes from a mind and a will. They are not found coming out of natural material processes, like wind, fire, water, cold or heat. The complexity and balance in the DNA of every living thing is a clear language that has the stored information or blueprint of that particular living thing. One must critically ask, where did the language and information come from. It had to come from a Mind with an intent. The mind that tuned the universe and created DNA is far greater than you or I can imagine. This theory was discussed on one of the largest forums for atheists, skeptics, and evolutionists on the web for three months and they could not put a single hole in it. This also proves that God exists. They all began to curse and and call names but not one changed his thinking. Now, we have given positive answers to the questions of whether Michael has performed miracles or not. Did it make a dent in the questioner’s thinking? I would think that this has fit into the dialectic process. These two irrefutable pieces of science show that God exists. So snowychap, or anyone else who has proclaimed to have an open mind here, have you changed their view things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 So you think they are brainwashed, but you're not. Well tonight I'll buy a pint of Stella , then maybe I'll have a pint of something different for my second drink ..depends what i fancy , the TV adverts don't influenence my taste buds , I'll decide via free thought on the spur of the moment if you like ..so I can't possibly be brain washed ..where as they have all clearly stated they will do the will of their messiah , so if their messiah says drink Stella then Stella they will drink even if deep down they really wanted a Bud If they answer yes then suddenly they're a nazi sympathiser and you'll berate them for it, if they answer no then you start on about how they can believe one man is doing God's work but not another. and that is theology for you , which is what i'm trying to discuss with them .. an arguement often thown at the Islamic community is that Mohammed was a deranged murdering tyrant , yet he is reverred and worshipped by millions who will do his bidding and live and die by his word ... can you see the angle I'm working on now ? , nothing to do with trying to "out " them as nazi's I don't berate people , I'm merely curious , but like i said it seems the other side don't want to play .. Was just wondering if VT members should sign up on their forum and discuss the merits of MON as the Messiah :-) They're asked the same things everywhere, why waste time giving new answers? this isn't you know who on a topic about Gordon Brown or Tony Blair :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 21, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2007 Jerry, interesting posts ! And your F1 post is a good advert for watching Formula 1 (a sport I love but not many on here do!). As for the cosmic constant. This is, I believe, something Einstein struggled with when he was alive. It was thought up to explain the why's and wherefore's of the universe that could not be explained at the time (and many of them still can not to). I don't follow the scientific debates as closely as I probably should, but I believe scientific advancements are now bringing into question the existence of a cosmic constant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 This theory was discussed on one of the largest forums for atheists, skeptics, and evolutionists on the web for three months and they could not put a single hole in it. This also proves that God exists. Your use of the word 'proves' is (putting it mildly) loose. So if I put a hypothesis on an internet forum and no one can put 'a hole in it' then that is mathematical proof? right................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCzap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 From Tony, Well tonight I'll buy a pint of Stella , then maybe I'll have a pint of something different for my second drink ..depends what i fancy , the TV adverts don't influenence my taste buds , I'll decide via free thought ..so I can't possibly be brain washed ..where as they have all clearly stated they will do the will of their messiah , so if their messiah says drink Stella then Stella they will drink even if deep down they really wanted a Bud As intelligent of a man you think you might be, it seems that you simply have no ability to reason. When was the last time you were here to know what my food or drink choices are? When did you observe a Messiah telling me what to drink? It is almost noon and I am now eating breakfast; are you so insane that you think a man walks into each and every home at all hours of the day and night and tells someone what to eat and drink? Do you actually read anything that I write? - like when I said that I sometimes never converse with Michael face to face for months. Tell me mister free man: when you are in a big hurry going down the highway and you want to drive at 180 kph, but the speed limit is only 100, do you exercise your freedom? If you wanted to build a commercial building in a residential zone, do you do it? Why not? Does your cult leader tell you when and where you can build and you just blindly follow him? If the big bad Moslims move a few doors down the street from you, and you want to buy a bazooka to protect yourself from their radical militant 10 year old children: do you exercise your free will and buy one? Do you show that you are brainwashed by submitting to your Guru (state and federal laws)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 BOF I'm not much of a scientist either and I only know a little of these things. But suffice it to say the information theory is a stopper. The language is there in the cell, and there is no known natural process that can produce information as seen in the DNA. This carefully designed factor of life is too beautiful to leave up to chance or just the working of some enigmatic nonpersonal Energy that is suppose to be God. The reason I placed this lengthy set of posts is to illustrate the fact that it is a waste of time to debate such issues as the heart is the issue not information an intellect. I always thought that if my friend only saw _______, they would understand. This was a delusion and I have now come to see that it is not knowledge. The Information theory placed on that forum was proof of that. The stubborn heart will not let God in to his world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 21, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2007 To go off on a tangent (but staying religious). I see from Terry's previous posts that ostensibly you believe that everything originated from or was created by God. With that in mind, where do you stand on creationism? Do you believe in pre-history, that things existed and were running around say 65,000,000 years ago ? Isn't it true that creationists believe that anything dated back then was 'placed' as a test by God for non-believers or to test faith? I'm just curious as to whether you guys subscribe to the creationist theory or even whether some of Strong City do and some others do not ? As, up to now, to your credit, you all seem pretty free to do/say/view what you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 So if I put a hypothesis on an internet forum and no one can put 'a hole in it' then that is mathematical proof? right................................... Hammer as you will at my feeble reasoning or logic, the scientific evidence is still there. Can you show us a natural process that has or can produce information and a language without a Mind behind it? God gives us evidence of His presence but He always leaves room for the doubter to keep his beliefs. The whole reason that this movie was produced was to separate and expose who is who in the final controversy. It is very fair though, God does not come down and arbitrarily zap those who are bad. He opens two doors and each enters the one they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I'm just curious as to whether you guys subscribe to the creationist theory or even whether some of Strong City do and some others do not ? As, up to now, to your credit, you all seem pretty free to do/say/view what you want We all believe that 6000 years ago it took 6 days to make everything and He rested the 7th Some creationists think there was 6 long periods of time between the days creation and that is when evolution took place. Where God tinkered with things. So you had millions of years of things dying before man came along. But the Word says that man brought sin into the world and death by sin. So we cannot accept these long years of time where death occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 So if I put a hypothesis on an internet forum and no one can put 'a hole in it' then that is mathematical proof? right................................... Hammer as you will at my feeble reasoning or logic, the scientific evidence is still there. Can you show us a natural process that has or can produce information and a language without a Mind behind it? God gives us evidence of His presence but He always leaves room for the doubter to keep his beliefs. The whole reason that this movie was produced was to separate and expose who is who in the final controversy. It is very fair though, God does not come down and arbitrarily zap those who are bad. He opens two doors and each enters the one they want. Don't have to. I'm just commenting that you cannot use the word 'proves' in that situation. A hypothesis is not proven because someone cannot disprove it in a finite period of time. I'm really just commenting that no one can possibly take what you say seriously if you band abourt strong and meaningful words like 'proves' without any awareness of what the words actually mean. I'm an agnostic but also a Mathematician and cannot let any misuse of the word 'proof' go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 21, 2007 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2007 I'm just curious as to whether you guys subscribe to the creationist theory or even whether some of Strong City do and some others do not ? As, up to now, to your credit, you all seem pretty free to do/say/view what you want We all believe that 6000 years ago it took 6 days to make everything and He rested the 7th Some creationists think there was 6 long periods of time between the days creation and that is when evolution took place. Where God tinkered with things. So you had millions of years of things dying before man came along. But the Word says that man brought sin into the world and death by sin. So we cannot accept these long years of time where death occurred. That's an interesting take on the 7 day theory. So some DO believe in dinosaurs AND believe in creationism ? Do those who believe in the dinosaurs believe God put them there or that man was the first creation of God ? I'm not being facetious here by the way, I'm trying to understand exactly where the 2 creationist theories differ and where (if anywhere) they agree with current scientific evolutionary explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villab0y Posted December 21, 2007 Author Share Posted December 21, 2007 I love this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I'm an agnostic but also a Mathematician and cannot let any misuse of the word 'proof' go. Thank you for making that clear. I'm more than willing to give you that, I retract the word proof. How about clear evidence that no one has disproved. All better now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I love this thread! and I love the people here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 That's an interesting take on the 7 day theory. So some DO believe in dinosaurs AND believe in creationism ? Do those who believe in the dinosaurs believe God put them there or that man was the first creation of God ? I'm not being facetious here by the way, I'm trying to understand exactly where the 2 creationist theories differ and where (if anywhere) they agree with current scientific evolutionary explanations. Yes they did exist. I believe God created them. Some say that the people back then who were extremely intelligent helped bring them about by cross breading and gene manipulation. Who can say? As far as "current scientific evolutionary explanations" go. They begin with the assumption that these happened long ago and work there evidence to make it fit that. There is plenty of evidence to show the other side of the coin, but I don't care to go into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villab0y Posted December 21, 2007 Author Share Posted December 21, 2007 I love this thread! and I love the people here Im glad you enjoy it here. I know Terry was asked the question before, but not you... Do have an interest in football or soccer as them there crazy americans call it? :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 To go off on a tangent (but staying religious). I see from Terry's previous posts that ostensibly you believe that everything originated from or was created by God. With that in mind, where do you stand on creationism? Do you believe in pre-history, that things existed and were running around say 65,000,000 years ago ? Isn't it true that creationists believe that anything dated back then was 'placed' as a test by God for non-believers or to test faith? I'm just curious as to whether you guys subscribe to the creationist theory or even whether some of Strong City do and some others do not ? As, up to now, to your credit, you all seem pretty free to do/say/view what you want Should we see what think about the Creationist theme park? Don't worry - I'm pretty sure I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I love this thread! and I love the people here Im glad you enjoy it here. I know Terry was asked the question before, but not you... Do have an interest in football or soccer as them there crazy americans call it? :winkold: Sorry friend, sports have never been much to me. I was quite mediocre in them as a youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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