Dr_Pangloss Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Well the current implementation is a total farce. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I think it’s got the majority of decisions right... one thing I would ask is why is it in Moscow? Couldn’t it just be someone in the stadium like every other sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: I think it’s got the majority of decisions right... one thing I would ask is why is it in Moscow? Couldn’t it just be someone in the stadium like every other sport? Putin's the 5th official. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Another pen not given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I’m all in favour of VAR even if it’s flawed, as long as it improves the amount of correct decisions and is used in a clear and consistent way. Ive not seen it do any of that yet, indeed the way it’s used has been different in almost every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 18, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Well the current implementation is a total farce. Really? I think it's been almost perfect in the world cup. Once the commentators stop going on about it at every opportunity and it just happens in the background we'll barely notice it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 18, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2018 35 minutes ago, terrytini said: I’m all in favour of VAR even if it’s flawed, as long as it improves the amount of correct decisions and is used in a clear and consistent way. Ive not seen it do any of that yet, indeed the way it’s used has been different in almost every game. It really hasn't. And it's already correctly turned round a number of decisions. Match changing stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 18 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It really hasn't. And it's already correctly turned round a number of decisions. Match changing stuff. It really has. Not really a debate doing that is it ? And yes, it’s correctly turned round some decisions. Which doesn’t alter my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 21 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Really? I think it's been almost perfect in the world cup. Once the commentators stop going on about it at every opportunity and it just happens in the background we'll barely notice it. Then how will you know how well it’s being applied ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 18, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, terrytini said: It really has. Not really a debate doing that is it ? And yes, it’s correctly turned round some decisions. Which doesn’t alter my view. You said you were in favour of VAR as long as it improves the number of correct decisions. But now you're saying it's correctly turned around some decisions but you're not in favour? Edited June 18, 2018 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 18, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, terrytini said: Then how will you know how well it’s being applied ? Because you'll see the referee correcting wrong decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Just now, Stevo985 said: You said you were in favour of VAR as long as it improves the number of correct decisions. But now you're saying it's correctly turned around some decisions but you're not in favour? Yes sorry that may seem contradictory. But first off there were 2 other bits to being in favour.....clear and consistent. I appreciate you take the view it is but as I don’t it doesn’t “ pass” that bit, so I’m not in favour as it’s being used. ( I’m very much in favour of the principle). But as regards the correct decisions what I mean is Yes, it’s correctly turned round some decisions, but ( in my view) has also - by either not being applied when it looks like it should’ve been, or being applied but it not being apparent, or it being applied and the outcome open to debate, it’s almost cancelled out the good ones. Again, really that comes down to the 2 other elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 It seems as if there's an anti England bug in the system. I hope it's resolved soon. Perhaps a brown paper bag full of money will solve the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Because you'll see the referee correcting wrong decisions. I’m not at all sure that’s a way of knowing how well it’s been applied, or how consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 18, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, terrytini said: Yes sorry that may seem contradictory. But first off there were 2 other bits to being in favour.....clear and consistent. I appreciate you take the view it is but as I don’t it doesn’t “ pass” that bit, so I’m not in favour as it’s being used. ( I’m very much in favour of the principle). But as regards the correct decisions what I mean is Yes, it’s correctly turned round some decisions, but ( in my view) has also - by either not being applied when it looks like it should’ve been, or being applied but it not being apparent, or it being applied and the outcome open to debate, it’s almost cancelled out the good ones. Again, really that comes down to the 2 other elements. But those "wrong" decisions would have been wrong anyway. Not having VAR wouldn't have made those decisions go the other way. They'd still have been wrong. And that's not the implementation of it, that's whoever is reviewing the incident on the screens deeming that for whatever reason the ref didn't need to review it. It's subjective. The implementation is consistent. It's being used the same in every game. but it's always going to have an element of subjectiveness to it. VAR is not meant to be perfect. It's meant to improve the likelihood of big decisions being right. So far in this world cup it has absolutely done that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) @Stevo985 edit forgot to quote your Post Your first two paragraphs/ sentences - agree, fair points. Next bit, how do you know ? That’s my point about it not being clear. If it’s a Ref only and he does or doesn’t give a penalty that’s that. Could be right or wrong, part of the game....but you know it’s happened. At present decisions are being made other than on the pitch and we don’t know how often, or the content. I don’t like that. I’ve watched every game and there are times when it’s completely unclear what’s looked at, what’s not etc. Fourth sentence..totally agree...it’s not and can’t be perfect. Final sentence...I’m not sure. It has certainly increased the likelihood of some big decisions being right. If it was clear that it had been used consistently and applied to all the big decisions then great, it’s my view that’s not been the case.... Edited June 18, 2018 by terrytini 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 It's 2018. I've been watching replays within seconds of the incidents on TV for all my adult life. What's ridiculous is that Football has kept it at bay for so long. It's been near perfect up until tonight in this tournament imo. Wrestling in the box could be stopped almost overnight by giving those penalties tonight. People only do it because they can get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I like it but there are still things getting missed. Kane today should have had at least one pen and Argentina should have had a second the other day. Giving teams perhaps one chance to review a decision would help as sometimes a ref can be so sure he has got a decision right, by the time it gets shown to be wrong it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 19, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 19, 2018 10 hours ago, terrytini said: @Stevo985 edit forgot to quote your Post Next bit, how do you know ? That’s my point about it not being clear. If it’s a Ref only and he does or doesn’t give a penalty that’s that. Could be right or wrong, part of the game....but you know it’s happened. Because that's how it's been explained that it is being used. If the ref has not been told to review a decision then the VAR team have deemed that there hasn't been a clear and obvious reason to do so. This is clear. 10 hours ago, terrytini said: Final sentence...I’m not sure. It has certainly increased the likelihood of some big decisions being right. If it was clear that it had been used consistently and applied to all the big decisions then great, it’s my view that’s not been the case.... I'm sorry but it has. It's almost factual. VAR hasn't meant decisions have been wrongly made. But it HAS reversed several incorrect decisions. The only way you could disagree with this is if you think the decisions that have been reversed were correct in the first place. But from what i've seen people have been basically unanimous in agreement that all the corrections have been right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Because that's how it's been explained that it is being used. If the ref has not been told to review a decision then the VAR team have deemed that there hasn't been a clear and obvious reason to do so. This is clear. I'm sorry but it has. It's almost factual. VAR hasn't meant decisions have been wrongly made. But it HAS reversed several incorrect decisions. The only way you could disagree with this is if you think the decisions that have been reversed were correct in the first place. But from what i've seen people have been basically unanimous in agreement that all the corrections have been right. How do you know the VAR team are checking all the things that shoukd be checked ? ( I don’t want to get bogged down by examples but to take a simple one, did they check the wrestling with Kane last night or not ....in each case or not ....and then, .in what way did they decide that - given what the earlier penalty was given for - either ( a) not to check, or (b) check and decide as they did ?). How do you know the VAR team at one game are checking the same things a VAR team at another game are checking ? How do you know the VAR team are then ‘correctly’ interpreting what they see ? How do you know each VAR team interpret things the same way ? How do we know Refs aren’t fudging, or failing to make decisions, knowing VAR will look - bad enough, but then VAR might not even look ? I know the potential answers and arguments in respect of these questions but I’m not sold yet. I don’t think there is loads wrong with the system. In fact it gives the appearance of working well in some cases, and definitely has worked in others. But I’m not convinced they’ve got what’s needed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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