The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[PieFacE]

Have to say I always thought the rule was that the free kick/penalty is to be given where the foul started. Commentators seems to live by that rule. But it make much more sense for the foul to be given where it ends.

[bobzy]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I think you've got it wrong here.

If contact is outside the box and the attacker falls into the box then it's not a pen.

The "carrying on" is for the actual foul. Like if it's a shirt pull that starts outside of the box and the attacker eventually gets pulled down inside the box, that's a pen.

If the defender doesn't touch the attacker in the box, it's just that the attacker has carried on into it, that's not a penalty.

 

At least as I understand it.

I understand the rule, I just think it's wrong.

There may be extreme scenarios where an attacker is continually held to the point of being grounded some 10 yards later as per @a m ole's post (I'm struggling to think of an example of this happening), but the foul is at the point of impeding.

The example of Spurs vs. Rochdale (which started this) is a very good one.  Whoever the Spurs player was, they got pulled back out of the area, threw their arms up and just waited until the very moment they got into the box and collapsed.  Should have been a free kick, was basically just a dive at the end.

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I understand the rule, I just think it's wrong.

There may be extreme scenarios where an attacker is continually held to the point of being grounded some 10 yards later as per @a m ole's post (I'm struggling to think of an example of this happening), but the foul is at the point of impeding.

The example of Spurs vs. Rochdale (which started this) is a very good one.  Whoever the Spurs player was, they got pulled back out of the area, threw their arms up and just waited until the very moment they got into the box and collapsed.  Should have been a free kick, was basically just a dive at the end.

With respect, I don’t think you do understand the rule given what you’ve posted so far.

The rochdale player was holding the spurs player for the whole time until the spurs player went down.

the extreme scenario you’re looking for is that one. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Stevo985

[Stevo985]

FWIW I’ve seen the spurs Rochdale highlights now and once again I don’t see what the fuss is about with the VAR. right decisions reached in each scenario, and half the delay caused by players complaining about the decisions or use of VAR. 

 

The only wrong big decision was disallowing Son’s penalty which I don’t think was illegal. But that’s wasnt VAR. 

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

With respect, I don’t think you do understand the rule given what you’ve posted so far.

The rochdale player was holding the spurs player for the whole time until the spurs player went down.

the extreme scenario you’re looking for is that one. 

With respect, you’re the one not understanding.

I’m not saying that the foul was incorrectly given. By the rule book, it was a penalty. What I’m saying is that the actual rule is stupid, as per the above example in the Spurs game - not the decision made. 

[tom_avfc]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

FWIW I’ve seen the spurs Rochdale highlights now and once again I don’t see what the fuss is about with the VAR. right decisions reached in each scenario, and half the delay caused by players complaining about the decisions or use of VAR. 

 

The only wrong big decision was disallowing Son’s penalty which I don’t think was illegal. But that’s wasnt VAR. 

Agree with almost all of this. The media seem to try and portray every VAR decision as controversial though which isn’t particularly helpful.

I think the Son penalty was correctly disallowed though. Stopping in your run up is considered unsporting and an automatic yellow card as far as I’m aware.

 

[Stevo985]

27 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

Agree with almost all of this. The media seem to try and portray every VAR decision as controversial though which isn’t particularly helpful.

I think the Son penalty was correctly disallowed though. Stopping in your run up is considered unsporting and an automatic yellow card as far as I’m aware.

 

I disagree. I think you’re allowed to stutter your run up. What you’re not allowed to do is dummy the actual shot. 

[Stevo985]

30 minutes ago, bobzy said:

With respect, you’re the one not understanding.

I’m not saying that the foul was incorrectly given. By the rule book, it was a penalty. What I’m saying is that the actual rule is stupid, as per the above example in the Spurs game - not the decision made. 

Fair enough. Your previous posts didn’t read in the same way. 

[tom_avfc]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

I disagree. I think you’re allowed to stutter your run up. What you’re not allowed to do is dummy the actual shot. 

You can feint during the run up but not at the end of the run up. He completely stops for a reasonable amount of time and then takes a small step and hits the ball.

Its debatable perhaps but I’d argue that he’s done more than stutter/feint during the run up in that instance and to be honest I’d be happy to see an end to penalties being taken like that. 

[sharkyvilla]

In every sport it's taken a long time to bed the system in, with trial and error, tweaks here and there to get it right.  Problem is that by definition they have to really do it in high profile matches where all the technology is there, so it creates a load of attention and cynicism as something doesn't go smoothly (and doesn't help that most pundits are thick as shit).  I also see a problem where referees end up becoming overly cautious and check more than is strictly necesssary.  If you compare it to run outs in cricket, it got to a point where almost every single decision was sent upstairs even if they're out by a mile.  The good thing about what they finally implemented in cricket is they put it in the hands of the players so it's a bit of a 'put up, or shut up' situation, if you think the decision is wrong you appeal it, if the ref was right you lose your appeal.  I'd prefer that kind of thing in football, partly because I think it would improve player behaviour if there was less incentive to con the ref and costing your team appeals.

[Dr_Pangloss]

The current implementation is terrible, unless this is dramatically improved it's going to face continual resistance from many people. As it stands it most certainly saps away from the experience of watching a football match and this appears to be even worse for those actually in the stadium. The scope of it certainly needs to be narrowed, rather than being fair game for virtually every incident. I would say that it's use should be limited to a set amount of appeals per team per match. The trade off 'of being right' for the general flow and fast paced experience of a football match is not for me at least a good one. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by Dr_Pangloss

[sne]

7 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

The current implementation is terrible, unless this is dramatically improved it's going to face continual resistance from many people. As it stands it most certainly saps away from the experience of watching a football match and this appears to be even worse for those actually in the stadium. The scope of it certainly needs to be narrowed, rather than being fair game for virtually every incident. I would say that it's use should be limited to a set amount of appeals per team per match. The trade off 'of being right' for the general flow and fast paced experience of a football match is not for me at least a good one. 

Exactly this!

[sne]

Imagine if something like this happens at the WC 

Quote

Chaos in Bundesliga match as VAR orders players back on to pitch for penalty after half-time whistle

Both sets of teams were ordered back onto the pitch having gone to the changing room at half-time after VAR awarded a penalty for handball

Mainz’s Bundesliga match against Freiburg on Monday night was subject to arguably the strangest scenes of football seen since VAR was first introduced to European football.

Both sets of teams were ordered back on to the pitch having gone to the changing room at half-time after VAR awarded a penalty for handball.

Referee Guido Winkmann, who was also on his way to the tunnel having initially dismissed the penalty appeal and blown for half-time, ordered the players to return so that Mainz's Pablo De Blasis could take a penalty for a handball that VAR noticed after the half-time whistle had been blown.

 

Freiburg coach Christian Streich, who was recently sent off for dissent in a league match, was on the sideline smiling and shaking his head in disbelief after being told to get his players back out.

The chaotic scenes angered fans who signalled their disapproval by throwing toilet rolls on to the pitch.

The VAR system has been used in the Bundesliga this season but not without controversy as it has been at the centre of several disputed decisions.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/var-bundesliga-mainz-penalty-freiburg-players-called-back-on-to-pitch-a8307876.html

Utter shambles.

It's a good thing they are testing at I guess because in the end it might become a working system, but as of yet they have not found the right way to implement it.

They are rushing it and it's way to early to test it at the WC in it's current form IMO.

[Zatman]

VAR has reached a new low

[PieFacE]

Why it's gonig to be used at the World Cup in it's current format is anyone's guess

I think it will be good for the game eventually, but this is stupid.

Edited April 17, 2018 by PieFacE

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, sne said:

Imagine if something like this happens at the WC 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/var-bundesliga-mainz-penalty-freiburg-players-called-back-on-to-pitch-a8307876.html

Utter shambles.

It's a good thing they are testing at I guess because in the end it might become a working system, but as of yet they have not found the right way to implement it.

They are rushing it and it's way to early to test it at the WC in it's current form IMO.

I don't understand why there'd be such a long delay...

 

 

...but I equally don't understand why there's such uproar about correct decisions being made.  Strange world.

[Stevo985]

57 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don't understand why there'd be such a long delay...

 

 

...but I equally don't understand why there's such uproar about correct decisions being made.  Strange world.

It's clearly the implementation that needs to be worked on. The outcome is right, but that bundesliga example is just ludicrous.

 

I still think that in a couple of years it will be used everywhere and we'll all be wondering what all the fuss was about

[sne]

8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It's clearly the implementation that needs to be worked on. The outcome is right, but that bundesliga example is just ludicrous.

 

Very much this.

It's much harder to implement it in football that is a fluid game (for the most part) than it is in for example American Football or even Ice Hockey that is more start stop or turn based.

Still needs lots of work.

[villa4europe]

Still dont see how it gets rid of inconsistency, if anything the use of this means it will get worse 

[Stevo985]

40 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Still dont see how it gets rid of inconsistency, if anything the use of this means it will get worse 

It won’t get rid of inconsistency because different refs will always see things differently. 

But it’s not meant to. It’s meant to give referees a better look at incidents and make it more likely that they’ll make the right decision.