terrytini Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Absolutely ridiculous use of it for the pen in the Portugal game, what a disgrace. You missed Paragraph 99 of the Protocol... If Ronaldo claims a penalty and you don’t award it, it’s automatically a clear and obvious error ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Multiple mistakes made with it in this tournament so far, plus the fact it makes the game turn farcical. I preferred it before. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: These wrong decisions would still be wrong though. That mitrovic one wouldn't have been given without VAR. Indeed. But it being missed by a Ref is excusable. A whole Panel deciding it’s not a clear and obvious error ( given some where they HAVE done so) is just baffling, at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Genie said: Multiple mistakes made with it in this tournament so far, plus the fact it makes the game turn farcical. I preferred it before. Agree. I find it far harder to accept a Lottery of several judges, who have time plus TV, than a Lottery of One, who has neither. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, terrytini said: You missed Paragraph 99 of the Protocol... If Ronaldo claims a penalty and you don’t award it, it’s automatically a clear and obvious error ... I'm talking about the Iran penalty, didn't see the Ronaldo incident as I was out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: I'm talking about the Iran penalty, didn't see the Ronaldo incident as I was out! Oops - I maybe made a clear and obvious error ...........or have I.......? Anyway - agree - that one was farcical in every respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 A clear error that took half an hour to spot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I can’t stand Portugal but if they’d gone out to that ....... ..we’d never see it again. Unless they improve rapidly this implementation will be abandoned and it’ll be ten times as hard to get a decent system in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, Genie said: Multiple mistakes made with it in this tournament so far, plus the fact it makes the game turn farcical. I preferred it before. It's a good concept, but you're putting it into the hands of idiots (modern day refs) so of course you're going to get ridiculous decisions being made off the back of VAR. The currently implementation isn't good enough and as you say, there's the circus element it brings to matches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 TBH it's worked better than i thought it would. even thou it's been imperfect, today was the first time it really disrupted the flow of the games and became the circus I feared t it would be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 33 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: I'm talking about the Iran penalty, didn't see the Ronaldo incident as I was out! Well Ronaldo went down ,appealed, no Pen. ( I thought it was a Pen, much as a don’t want to agree with CR7 !.....but didn’t think anything of it being waved away )...But VAR invited a second look.......I was was watching with 3 others, I was the only one who thought Pen. I certainly didn’t see a clear and obvious mistake. After the game BBC gobshites said not a clear and obvious mistake. Now if all watching are split on whether it’s clear and obvious, how can it be ? Im not at all sure why they don’t remove the phrase completely. Why not just ask the Ref over to review any potential penalty where the VAR thinks a Penalty could be awarded ? Why start by saying it must first be established the Ref has made a clear and obvious error ? I know the philosophy is to maintain the Ref is running the game, but I don’t see sticking to that idea as helpful. In my view it’d be improved if - 1 - VAR ask Ref to look at anything they think might be a Penalty, regardless of whether they think the Refs original decision is a mistake. 2 -Each side can have an appeal per half. Not perfect as once used up the opposition are at less risk of being awarded against, but in turn that’d make the appealing team careful about what they ask for - a diving player isn’t going to risk an appeal. This would remove the ludicrous new development of random players randomly asking for reviews. 3- rigidly enforce the concept that if you ask for a Review, you get it.......that’ll stop them asking all the time....and, once you’ve used them, any request for one is a Yellow Card... backed up by it being spelt out that the Ref can’t ask anyway, only be invited to review ( but in turn the players would know that (1) above is in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 26, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2018 I stand by that as soon as players and the media get over the fact that VAR is there, things will be so much better. Players are appealing for and complaining about VAR. it's utterly pointless. The ref can't ask for VAR anyway so stop asking him. And if it's used it gives the ref the best opportunity to give a decision so stop moaning about it. And the media are just creating controversy because they love it. It's a talking point until people get bored. Shearer's faux-outrage about VAR last night for example. Or the headline on the BBC website today referring to Isco's goal last night as a "VAR Goal". it's not a VAR goal, it's just a goal. Again I draw the comparison to goalline technology. When it came out you had players appealing against it, you had commentators and pundits questioning whether it was accurate and whether it worked, you had "the good ol' days" people complaining that it was unnecessary. Once everyone calmed down and realised it worked and it wasn't going anywhere, everyone forgot about it. In a couple of years we won't even talk about VAR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I stand by that as soon as players and the media get over the fact that VAR is there, things will be so much better. Players are appealing for and complaining about VAR. it's utterly pointless. The ref can't ask for VAR anyway so stop asking him. And if it's used it gives the ref the best opportunity to give a decision so stop moaning about it. And the media are just creating controversy because they love it. It's a talking point until people get bored. Shearer's faux-outrage about VAR last night for example. Or the headline on the BBC website today referring to Isco's goal last night as a "VAR Goal". it's not a VAR goal, it's just a goal. Again I draw the comparison to goalline technology. When it came out you had players appealing against it, you had commentators and pundits questioning whether it was accurate and whether it worked, you had "the good ol' days" people complaining that it was unnecessary. Once everyone calmed down and realised it worked and it wasn't going anywhere, everyone forgot about it. In a couple of years we won't even talk about VAR. I agree it will calm down when people get used to it, and when they work out the kinks and find a better way of implementing it. But it'll never be as simple as goal line technology where there is very black or white and the picture can easily show if the ball was over the line or not. In game situations are much more dubious than that. And even now after watching replays people are still disagreeing about calls. And rightly so as different ref's and VAR guys watch the same situations and still make different calls depending on players, teams and situations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 So first it was only for clear and obvious errors. Then when people see penalties that were clear and obvious they ask why VAR wasn't used. Now they have changed their minds and everything is fair game for VAR and it's used to balance out decisions in a game, so if you get one bad VAR decision against you don't worry you'll get a one in your favour later on. What a farce, but sadly a completely predictable one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, sne said: But it'll never be as simple as goal line technology where there is very black or white and the picture can easily show if the ball was over the line or not. They should just be using it to assist with offside calls. They can use the technology to show clearly if something, e.g. a goal, was offside or not. For subjective things like fouls it's a farce. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 11 hours ago, sne said: I agree it will calm down when people get used to it, and when they work out the kinks and find a better way of implementing it. But it'll never be as simple as goal line technology where there is very black or white and the picture can easily show if the ball was over the line or not. In game situations are much more dubious than that. And even now after watching replays people are still disagreeing about calls. And rightly so as different ref's and VAR guys watch the same situations and still make different calls depending on players, teams and situations. I agree with this. The comparison to goal line technology is very wide of the mark; the decisions that have been made due to VAR are often still very subjective. Goal line technology is, as you say, utterly clean cut. They're not different versions of the same thing, they're different things. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 11 hours ago, villa89 said: They should just be using it to assist with offside calls. They can use the technology to show clearly if something, e.g. a goal, was offside or not. For subjective things like fouls it's a farce. Fouls are not subjective, the referees are making mistakes when they are not awarding panelties when they should have done. The rules of the game are clear. I'm happy about VAR because the % of these mistakes can now be reduced, it will never be completely eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Fouls are not subjective, the referees are making mistakes when they are not awarding panelties when they should have done. The rules of the game are clear. I'm happy about VAR because the % of these mistakes can now be reduced, it will never be completely eliminated. What can you possibly mean when you say 'fouls are not subjective'? As a statement of obvious reality, they are. People argue about them at the end of literally every game! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: What can you possibly mean when you say 'fouls are not subjective'? As a statement of obvious reality, they are. People argue about them at the end of literally every game! It's either a foul or it isn't - just because people disagree on the interpretation of the rule it doesn't make the rule subjective. It's exactly for that reason VAR was introduced, so that refs can be better equipped to make objective decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 they are definitely subjective contact isnt a foul, a ball touching an arm isnt necessarily a foul, the refs interpretation of both the rules and the game come in to play thats why for me tonight it wasnt a penalty for Nigeria, a 6ft+ athlete fell over because of an arm around his waste? or knowing that theres contact he starts angling his body in a way that means he ends up falling over and looking like he's been dragged, giroud did the exact same thing today and didnt get a penalty, same happened with neymar last week better example would be the iran handball vs the handball tonight, neither are handball IMO but tonight is worse, theres no one next to rojo, he's misjudged the flight and headed it on to his own arm, both decisions still have the "seen them given" feel to them and VAR isnt going to change that human element of the decision process 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts