Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[avfc1982am]

 

[bannedfromHandV]

An extra 300,000 reservists with likely minimal training and also unlikely to be overly keen on the idea, using dated and unreliable hardware with a command structure that doesn’t appear to work.

Against a highly motivated, and now highly trained / experienced army with cutting edge equipment and command structure / strategy.

Yeah, can’t see that going too well for Putin.

[bannedfromHandV]

6 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

 

So KFC are still happy to trade in Russia then? 

[The Fun Factory]

15 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

 

Very interesting. A mixture of brainwashed compliance, informed opposition, and traditional Russian fatalism.

[CVByrne]

I think we need to give Putin an out. A return to the boundaries of beginning of this year and a ceasefire. Putin can claim he has protected the people he set out to protect etc.. Ukraine goes back to pre-invasion lines and reclaims a lot of territory with no bloodshed

[Jareth]

You can see why he's avoiding a full mobilisation - those blokes in that video while not all on the same side of the argument were mostly very reluctant or have not processed the idea - if it comes down to going to Ukraine to die or protesting in Russia then it's a simple choice. 

[bickster]

36 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

He has no choice.

Well he does, there's always a choice but unfortunately it's a bit of a zugzwang

From his position its the least worst option but it really is just delaying the inevitable as it doesn't matter how much meat you chuck in the grinder when the opposition have greater numbers and superior equipment and don't have distractions like also having to defend the largest country in the world and its allied satellite states. 

 

[bickster]

1 minute ago, CVByrne said:

I think we need to give Putin an out. A return to the boundaries of beginning of this year and a ceasefire.

It's not your nor my decision, nor the USa's nor NATO's, it is the decision of Ukraine alone and it isn't going to happen. It's gone way beyond that as an out. Ukraine want all their territory back and why shouldn't they

There is no We to offer this. What you've said is no different to what Scholtz and Macron have been doing, it's appeasement. It's exactly the same horseshit that Neville Chamberlain fell for.

[magnkarl]

7 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I think we need to give Putin an out. A return to the boundaries of beginning of this year and a ceasefire. Putin can claim he has protected the people he set out to protect etc.. Ukraine goes back to pre-invasion lines and reclaims a lot of territory with no bloodshed

Sorry, we tried to give Hitler an 'out'. Look where that led. They tried the same with Napoleon, look where that led. He bloody escaped from Elba and screwed Europe over again.

Putin and his cronies out, democracy and liberty in, or grind his army to dust in Ukraine until they revolt, which by the day is looking more and more likely. The army won't be enthusiastic about being micro-managed to death by oligarchs who haven't got the foggiest idea about war. Shoigu is a sheep farmer in a uniform.

Putin and other psychopaths don't play by the rules of getting an 'out'. They'll try forever to cause damage and disruption. He needs to be on trial in The Hague together with his other brass. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by magnkarl

[Jareth]

9 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I think we need to give Putin an out. 

This can be achieved. By Ukraine humbling his army. Klitschko said earlier that Putin has now finally started the process that will bring him down - Ukrainians have always known how to handle this. 

[CVByrne]

6 minutes ago, bickster said:

It's not your nor my decision, nor the USa's nor NATO's, it is the decision of Ukraine alone and it isn't going to happen. It's gone way beyond that as an out. Ukraine want all their territory back and why shouldn't they

There is no We to offer this. What you've said is no different to what Scholtz and Macron have been doing, it's appeasement. It's exactly the same horseshit that Neville Chamberlain fell for.

Well we do have a say since they are totally reliant on us for arms and supplies. Plus intelligence. There needs to be thought about the end of the war. Anything that results in retaking Crimea etc.. will result in nuclear weapons being used. So we can't let things get to that

[Genie]

Some kind of ceasefire which divides up the land isn’t good in the long term, Putin will plot another invasion and bring the world to its knees again. The risk will exist forever.

Putin needs to be fully removed from power. He cannot be trusted so we have to keep going until his threat is completely gone.

[tinker]

24 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Very interesting. A mixture of brainwashed compliance, informed opposition, and traditional Russian fatalism.

The last guy had a story to tell. Putin is an enemy of Russia and humanity. He appears to have completely lost the plot with this mobilization and his threats. 

[CVByrne]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

Some kind of ceasefire which divides up the land isn’t good in the long term, Putin will plot another invasion and bring the world to its knees again. The risk will exist forever.

Putin needs to be fully removed from power. He cannot be trusted so we have to keep going until his threat is completely gone.

Putin would not plot another invasion. He's seen how badly it goes. He needs to pretend he's achieved his aims otherwise he will continue to escalate until nuclear weapons are used.

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Well we do have a say since they are totally reliant on us for arms and supplies. Plus intelligence. There needs to be thought about the end of the war. Anything that results in retaking Crimea etc.. will result in nuclear weapons being used. So we can't let things get to that

It will not result in nuclear weapons being used.

[tinker]

7 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Well we do have a say since they are totally reliant on us for arms and supplies. Plus intelligence. There needs to be thought about the end of the war. Anything that results in retaking Crimea etc.. will result in nuclear weapons being used. So we can't let things get to that

If we give in to nuclear threats then he will do it again and again. We need to stand firm, draw our lines and prepare. I think that's where we are at anyway, if he launches nukes then NATO has to react or Putin has Europe by the throat. 

[Jareth]

10 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Putin would not plot another invasion. 

is what they said after Crimea

[magnkarl]

8 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Putin would not plot another invasion. He's seen how badly it goes. He needs to pretend he's achieved his aims otherwise he will continue to escalate until nuclear weapons are used.

Do you not think China has told Putin that nukes are off the table? Russias missiles have had a reported close to 50% failure rate so far in this war, do you really think it's a good idea to send such badly designed weapons up against the best air defenses in the world in Europe? I'm sure someone in the Kremlin is aware that what is coming back if he does launch will be much, much more dangerous.

Nukes are deterrents, they've been so since Hiroshima/Nagasaki. These threats are a bully's way of trying to get any leverage he can. He doesn't have anything else.

[CVByrne]

The mobilisation is to put pressure on West to urge Ukraine back to negotiations. Something like international peace keepers in Donbas and Russia keeping Crimea seems like an acceptable way to end the war

[magnkarl]

6 minutes ago, Jareth said:

is what they said after Crimea

Or Georgia, or Afghanistan 1.