sidcow Posted June 18, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: I read what you are saying,but what I meant was that there is no reason to beleive that Putin will stop at Ukraine.In other words he is Hitler #2 If he goes anywhere else he literally will be on NATO territory which then WILL initiate a NATO response. Besides which after Ukraine I don't think The Russian army will be capable of a large scale invasion for years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 18, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2023 9 minutes ago, sidcow said: If he goes anywhere else he literally will be on NATO territory which then WILL initiate a NATO response. Besides which after Ukraine I don't think The Russian army will be capable of a large scale invasion for years. It's not really capable of defending its own borders right now. If China really wanted to take back its disputed territories it could pretty much walk in there with little opposition 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Not for the faint hearted in spoiler Spoiler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 People on here are far more qualified than me, but just shows how poorly equipped and trained the Russian soldiers here are. The ony guy does even check the corner at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 In those videos though, could the Russian soldiers be more clueless? Literally walking up to a Ukrainian with a machine gun not realising he was there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Yeah that's quite disturbing. Are those soldiers even in uniform? Looks like they're just in civilian clothes and trainers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Just a comparison between this current counter offensive and some historic battles, i.e D-day, it took the combined might of Britain, Canada, USA and several volunteer corps from Norway, Poland, France and Portugal, with total air and naval superiority over a month to capture less of Normandy than what Ukraine have liberated in a week. It will take time, it won't be this slow probing that does it, but it bleeds Russia dry without engaging their most advanced and well trained formations which they will push up whenever they find a weak spot. Comparatively it took the US and allies several weeks to get a toe-hold in Italy during WW2 against a rather small army. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: Comparatively it took the US and allies several weeks to get a toe-hold in Italy during WW2 against a rather small army. Its not really comparable though. There weren't too many drones in WWII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Just now, villa89 said: Its not really comparable though. There weren't too many drones in WWII Actually I'd say that comparatively the allies in 1944-45 had a much greater edge on Germany than what Ukraine has on Russia today. They had air superiority (with scout planes working like surveillance drones by the way), were bombing Germany to a pulp every night and still used a month to get a few 100 square miles of Normandy under control. Ukraine is still progressing faster than the allies even with their extreme advantage in both manpower and other statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 4 hours ago, magnkarl said: Actually I'd say that comparatively the allies in 1944-45 had a much greater edge on Germany than what Ukraine has on Russia today. They had air superiority (with scout planes working like surveillance drones by the way), were bombing Germany to a pulp every night and still used a month to get a few 100 square miles of Normandy under control. Ukraine is still progressing faster than the allies even with their extreme advantage in both manpower and other statistics. I'm starting to think you've got a train set up in your loft. One that the kids can play with for fear of detonating the c4 you've set up on the bridge when the Russian train passes over with a load of T55's in tow. In all seriousness though, comparing the Russia of now to the Germany of then is a dreadful comparison. Germany was ultimately war ready in 1939 after only 20 years post WW1 in which they once again took on the majority of Europe fighting on multiple fronts. Your comparing a Mercedes to a Lada lol. Ukraine have done well but lets not start making out they're fighting the best of the best after over a year of sniggering at Russian ineptness. My guess is Britain, Germany, France(maybe not lol), and quite a few nations would have undoubtedly slapped the shit out of Russia by now and sent them back home with tails between legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, avfc1982am said: I'm starting to think you've got a train set up in your loft. One that the kids can play with for fear of detonating the c4 you've set up on the bridge when the Russian train passes over with a load of T55's in tow. In all seriousness though, comparing the Russia of now to the Germany of then is a dreadful comparison. Germany was ultimately war ready in 1939 after only 20 years post WW1 in which they once again took on the majority of Europe fighting on multiple fronts. Your comparing a Mercedes to a Lada lol. Ukraine have done well but lets not start making out they're fighting the best of the best after over a year of sniggering at Russian ineptness. My guess is Britain, Germany, France(maybe not lol), and quite a few nations would have undoubtedly slapped the shit out of Russia by now and sent them back home with tails between legs. The point was more that people need to be patient with the counter attack. It didn’t unravel for the allies against a by then weak Germany, and it likely won’t for an inept idiotic Russia for a while still. Edited June 19, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, magnkarl said: The point was more that people need to be patient with the counter attack I do very much agree with this. It could take many many months to see real changes to the frontlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2023 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 20, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 20, 2023 ^^^^ Excellent thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 There’s been discussion about nuclear weapons on this thread, and there was consensus that Putin would not use them. Joe Biden doesn’t necessarily agree. I’m on my phone here so can’t do a fancy link, but the headline of this Reuters piece is: Biden says threat of Putin using tactical nuclear weapons is 'real' https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-says-threat-putin-using-tactical-nuclear-weapons-is-real-2023-06-20/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 20, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, Enda said: There’s been discussion about nuclear weapons on this thread, and there was consensus that Putin would not use them. Joe Biden doesn’t necessarily agree. I’m on my phone here so can’t do a fancy link, but the headline of this Reuters piece is: Biden says threat of Putin using tactical nuclear weapons is 'real' https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-says-threat-putin-using-tactical-nuclear-weapons-is-real-2023-06-20/ On the same day that Ukraine's secret service announced that Belarus hasn't been given any after all. Biden will have said that for a reason, it may not be the obvious reason. It could be for the domestic US to justify the expenditure, it could be because they intercepted some intelligence about Putin thinking they weren’t taking him seriously, could be something to do with back door diplomacy or any number of reasons Also it’s obviously a threat, just a very very minute one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Biden said that Putin could use tactical nukes on the battlefield. He didn't say that he would use them on the battlefield against Ukraine in the foreseeable future. If there were to be a full scale war between Russia and the USA its very possible he would. A single USA carrier group could take out Russia's airforce. A single nuke could take out an entire carrier group. It would be stupid to think they wouldn't become a target. Ukraine has nothing like that. What Ukraine has is either very near Russia or near NATO land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 2 hours ago, bickster said: On the same day that Ukraine's secret service announced that Belarus hasn't been given any after all. No surprise. If they've been given missiles they are full of shredded newspaper. No chance Putin is giving another country a few nukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, villa89 said: No surprise. If they've been given missiles they are full of shredded newspaper. No chance Putin is giving another country a few nukes. Agreed. Nukes need a lot of maintenance to keep them operational. There is no way that Putin is sending viable nukes to another country. Its just another way to stir up fear in the west and thereby undermine support for Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 George Galloway and Chris Williamson are up in arms about Gonzalo Lira being arrested in Kharkiv. They think Ukraine have killed him. I guess they're scared that Ukraine might take out propagandists outside their own borders too, or that NATO might start cracking down on Russian trolls like them. Lira is arrested for having shared information about Ukraine, and he's a known Russian propagandists who's fled the U.S. due to criminal charges to be a vatnik for Russia on a large scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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