What's wrong at Villa?

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

40 minutes ago, lexicon said:

How does it correlate with Johnstone being our GK too?

5 losses and 1 draw since Johnstone came in. They played together in the Wolves loss but that's it.

Good point well made though. I've always advocated the signing of good experienced keeper as backup.

Edited February 16, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay

[lexicon]

FWIW, I rate Jedi as being pretty damn important to the team and I'd assume that both are contributing factors to our recent results rather than one or the other. 

[Villarocker]

We have had the same problem throughout our slump - no midfield cover for our defence. This all started when Petrov became ill and we lost that player who could naturally sit in front of the back four and give them some protection. Delph was deployed here, there and everywhere until he eventually settled down in midfield and gave the back four some protection and actually turned out to be good.

It's no coincidence we've lost so many games without Jedinak, despite the fact I actually think he could do better than he has. It was obvious he isn't fit before the January window opened and Bruce should have addressed that situation and brought in cover and not try to put a square peg in a round hole by playing an attacking midfielder in a defensive midfield position.

[Reivax_Villa]

Like many other fans, i find it weird that despite whoever we bring to this club, they get swamped in the dark cloud at Aston Villa FC.

The biggest problem at this football club is the weight of expectation added with recent failures. The real question is whether a player like Conor Hourihane (who i believe is very talented) can deal with the pressure of playing for Aston Villa. It's very rare that when a footballer comes to a football club he is tasked with the responsibility of changing the fortunes of a big football in low league football.

Are we underestimating the task that our players have?

Fans are screaming for Wagner or Dean Smith, but can they really deal with the club, fans, chairman, media at this football club? 

There is no real expectation at Huddersfield or Brentford, the players are free to play how they like with no pressure and these managers do not have the weight of the club on their shoulders the way SB does.

I personally think that the players that we have signed in the previous transfer windows did not realise how tough it is at Aston Villa and now they are realising how hard it will be to get promoted.

 

[TRO]

On 2/15/2017 at 16:40, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

For two years I was broken record about Albrighton but I don't think I was wrong. We needed his crossing and energy despite him being limited.

And I don't want to be a broken record again (despite me being one on a defensive midfielders for 6 years too) but, these are our results with Jedinak in the team.
Couldn't get them all one screen but add 5 draws and 2 losses to that table when he did play.

We have to blood in a young defensive midfielder who plays defensive midfield rather than attack or we buy an understudy for an ageing and injury prone Jedinak.
It's one thing struggling to score but it's quite another to be loose in the middle of the park.

Hallelujah!!!!

Ps I would argue in some games......only some, I would play 2( if we had 2)......and stifle every bit of life out of the opposition.

(Remember the great Liverpool team with Souness and Case......Arsenal with Viera and Petit.......Villa with Mortimer and Bremner.....Leeds with Bremner & Giles)

for sure some can play/scheme  a bit too

and like a snake who squeezes the victim to death......Then devour them.....in our case, with goals.

Edited February 19, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

On 2/16/2017 at 12:10, lexicon said:

FWIW, I rate Jedi as being pretty damn important to the team and I'd assume that both are contributing factors to our recent results rather than one or the other. 

I think where the complexity comes in......on his own his work is ugly, not many fans endear to that.....hence can't see what he does, but he is a TEAM player and I will be surprised if we don't see an upturn in the form of our new midfielders when he returns.

[TRO]

On 2/16/2017 at 13:38, villarocker said:

We have had the same problem throughout our slump - no midfield cover for our defence. This all started when Petrov became ill and we lost that player who could naturally sit in front of the back four and give them some protection. Delph was deployed here, there and everywhere until he eventually settled down in midfield and gave the back four some protection and actually turned out to be good.

It's no coincidence we've lost so many games without Jedinak, despite the fact I actually think he could do better than he has. It was obvious he isn't fit before the January window opened and Bruce should have addressed that situation and brought in cover and not try to put a square peg in a round hole by playing an attacking midfielder in a defensive midfield position.

spot on VR

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Reivax_Villa said:

Like many other fans, i find it weird that despite whoever we bring to this club, they get swamped in the dark cloud at Aston Villa FC.

The biggest problem at this football club is the weight of expectation added with recent failures. The real question is whether a player like Conor Hourihane (who i believe is very talented) can deal with the pressure of playing for Aston Villa. It's very rare that when a footballer comes to a football club he is tasked with the responsibility of changing the fortunes of a big football in low league football.

Are we underestimating the task that our players have?

Fans are screaming for Wagner or Dean Smith, but can they really deal with the club, fans, chairman, media at this football club? 

There is no real expectation at Huddersfield or Brentford, the players are free to play how they like with no pressure and these managers do not have the weight of the club on their shoulders the way SB does.

I personally think that the players that we have signed in the previous transfer windows did not realise how tough it is at Aston Villa and now they are realising how hard it will be to get promoted.

 

I think it is a tough job this one ......a sod of a job, to be frank.

Buts its great when it turns.....I have seen it before at my age.....and its great to see.

Despite the good transfer window, I think the balance is still not right.......its not this that or the other or leaves on the rails.....its the balance.

Its disappointing we have not fixed it, but it is in our capability to do so.....I think we have all the expensive bits assembled now we need a few piano carriers, to let the piano players play.

Conor and Henri are not Enforcers ......they do not possess the combative skills to do that despite them having a go.....Neither could Ashley or Gary.....its a bit of a specialist Role you either have it or you don't......We need a Tom Hardy in there , just joking, but you know what i mean...a staffordshire Bull upsetting the plans of the opposition.....we have 2 Afghan Hounds as eloquent as they are.....It ain't there bag.

Edited February 19, 2017 by TRO

[lexicon]

14 hours ago, TRO said:

I think where the complexity comes in......on his own his work is ugly, not many fans endear to that.....hence can't see what he does, but he is a TEAM player and I will be surprised if we don't see an upturn in the form of our new midfielders when he returns.

Agree 100%. Doing the dirty work is seemingly an underrated and underappreciated value. 

[ender4]

Whats wrong at Villa?
 

as of today with our new team, new manager, new backroom staff, new directors and management, new owner... i would the only thing wrong now is we need some stability and less pressure for the players.

[turvontour]

1 hour ago, ender4 said:

Whats wrong at Villa?
 

as of today with our new team, new manager, new backroom staff, new directors and management, new owner... i would the only thing wrong now is we need some stability and less pressure for the players.

I don’t think that the players have been under pressure particularly this season. In the Premier League the media creates this view that every game matters, and therefore performances and results are crucial. It simply isn’t there in the Championship, due to the obvious lack of interest at a lower level as well as the increased number of games and the fact that the league is stretched unlike the premier League. It’s easy for Sky to justify the importance of games when there is 3 points separating the bottom 5 and 4 points separating 5 of the top 6. Also, the fans have been on the players side for this season to date so it isn’t like they’ve been regularly booed for these appalling results. If anything, pressure will start to build now as we are getting to a stage where we simply need results to survive.

[bobzy]

16 hours ago, TRO said:

Conor and Henri are not Enforcers ......they do not possess the combative skills to do that despite them having a go.....Neither could Ashley or Gary.....its a bit of a specialist Role you either have it or you don't......We need a Tom Hardy in there , just joking, but you know what i mean...a staffordshire Bull upsetting the plans of the opposition.....we have 2 Afghan Hounds as eloquent as they are.....It ain't there bag.

Does any midfield in this league have "enforcers" or people who are dedicated to breaking up play?  I don't get it.  You can play 2 central midfielders and be absolutely fine - a specialist defensive one isn't necessarily needed.

FWIW, Hourihane is actually well "up there" in terms of tackles made this season.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

Agree 100%. Doing the dirty work is seemingly an underrated and underappreciated value. 

In some cases( fans) they just can't see it......I know, I learnt the hard way.

Its actually a very crucial role that turns defence in to attack, done properly.

If you said to some fans we are not attacking properly because we are short of a DM they would think you was mad.....but how can you attack without the ball?......They win the ball.

Edited February 20, 2017 by TRO

[Dr_Pangloss]

Very poor management on and off the pitch over the past 8 years are to blame.

This season we've just not got things right. We have failed to bring in the right manager, RDM was just awful and Bruce is clearly a busted flush. We needed someone a bit more in tune with the modern game, with a bit of tactical nous and ability to improvise. Bruce has been found wanting in pretty much every department since his arrival.

It's so clear to me that throwing money at the problem is not the solution. We have overspent massively this season for what will be an atrocious return. There's always a problem involved with giving experienced Championship players big money, that is they bring a mercenary mentality to the table. Most of our big money signings this season have no experience of top level football, have no experience of getting promoted to the premier league, so have no experience to draw from in terms of knowing what it takes to get up. I genuinely believe that most of our signings this season are here to cash out for a couple of seasons before they get well and truly found out and then shipped out.  

[TRO]

37 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Does any midfield in this league have "enforcers" or people who are dedicated to breaking up play?  I don't get it.  You can play 2 central midfielders and be absolutely fine - a specialist defensive one isn't necessarily needed.

FWIW, Hourihane is actually well "up there" in terms of tackles made this season.

so why do teams just run through the middle of us.....I see very little physical resistance, sorry.I don't see us win aerial balls played over the top, unless Jed is there...  also it relates to other players too, I don't see the full backs winning the ball very often and dominating their marker....I don't see the them imposing themselves on their opposite number, I just see "shadow boxing" in most area's of the pitch.

sorry, just my view.

so there is basically and Arc of players that are happy to stand off and be attacked.

We are ( as a group) too easy to play against

I find it difficult to start playing attacking football, until the basics are right and everyone feels comfortable with it.

If you just start attacking from the off and have not won the right to ( and don't score) your liable to be undone.

Edited February 20, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Very poor management on and off the pitch over the past 8 years are to blame.

This season we've just not got things right. We have failed to bring in the right manager, RDM was just awful and Bruce is clearly a busted flush. We needed someone a bit more in tune with the modern game, with a bit of tactical nous and ability to improvise. Bruce has been found wanting in pretty much every department since his arrival.

It's so clear to me that throwing money at the problem is not the solution. We have overspent massively this season for what will be an atrocious return. There's always a problem involved with giving experienced Championship players big money, that is they bring a mercenary mentality to the table. Most of our big money signings this season have no experience of top level football, have no experience of getting promoted to the premier league, so have no experience to draw from in terms of knowing what it takes to get up. I genuinely believe that most of our signings this season are here to cash out for a couple of seasons before they get well and truly found out and then shipped out.  

I agree with most of that, I don't agree with the Bruce is a busted flush scenario, but most of the rest.

 

[bobzy]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

so why do teams just run through the middle of us.....I see very little physical resistance, sorry.I don't see us win aerial balls played over the top, unless Jed is there...  also it relates to other players too, I don't see the full backs winning the ball very often and dominating their marker....I don't see the them imposing themselves on their opposite number, I just see "shadow boxing" in most area's of the pitch.

sorry, just my view.

so there is basically and Arc of players that are happy to stand off and be attacked.

We are ( as a group) too easy to play against

I find it difficult to start playing attacking football, until the basics are right and everyone feels comfortable with it.

If you just start attacking from the off and have not won the right to ( and don't score) your liable to be undone.

But, even with Jedinak there, we lose the midfield "battle" and have been poor.  Sure, he adds a solidarity to the team to an extent, but that's because you're playing with a genuine, specialist, defensive midfielder.

I just haven't noticed any of the top teams in this league using such a system.  I may be wrong.

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, bobzy said:

But, even with Jedinak there, we lose the midfield "battle" and have been poor.  Sure, he adds a solidarity to the team to an extent, but that's because you're playing with a genuine, specialist, defensive midfielder.

I just haven't noticed any of the top teams in this league using such a system.  I may be wrong.

Well, whether they have or whether they haven't they do seem to be at home with the physical requirements of the game.....whether they are more accustomed to this league I can only speculate.....They are also more industrious and chase lost causes much more than we do.....The first sign of adversity we flounder, they fight and rise to the challenge.

I see in us, a team that is comfortable standing off their opponent and that to me, brings us a big problem in most aspects of our play.

I don't really see a change in our play until this dastardly trait leaves us.

Edited February 20, 2017 by TRO

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Well, whether they have or whether they haven't they do seem to be at home with the physical requirements of the game.....whether they are more accustomed to this league I can only speculate.....They are also more industrious and chase lost causes much more than we do.....The first sign of adversity we flounder, they fight and rise to the challenge.

I see in us, a team that is comfortable standing off their opponent and that to me, brings us a big problem in most aspects of our play.

I don't really see a change in our play until this dastardly trait leaves us.

See, I disagree.  I don't think our problem is a lack of physicality or some sort of frailty.

We have the best defensive record outside the top 6 and Derby.  We're pretty middle of the table in terms of tackles per game and in the top 6 when it comes to fouls per game.  I don't think we lack "fight" or whatever you're wanting to quantify this as.

What we do lack in abundance is an attacking edge.  Only Wigan (29) have scored fewer goals than us - we're joint with Rotherham on 30.  However, when it comes to having shots, again we're very much middle of the table.

Creativity, improvisation, movement... that's what we lack more than anything.  

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, bobzy said:

See, I disagree.  I don't think our problem is a lack of physicality or some sort of frailty.

We have the best defensive record outside the top 6 and Derby.  We're pretty middle of the table in terms of tackles per game and in the top 6 when it comes to fouls per game.  I don't think we lack "fight" or whatever you're wanting to quantify this as.

What we do lack in abundance is an attacking edge.  Only Wigan (29) have scored fewer goals than us - we're joint with Rotherham on 30.  However, when it comes to having shots, again we're very much middle of the table.

Creativity, improvisation, movement... that's what we lack more than anything.  

I agree, in Bold......I am not arguing, we may differ on what comes first

but if you area boxer, its hard to throw punches when you are being battered.

Its like what comes first the chicken or the egg.

We can't keep a clean sheet to save our lives......so many experienced managers over the years have said quote " you have to win the right to play football"......They didn't say that for nothing....Shankly used to preach it.

If you just go out and do what you are suggesting.....you have to have so many more things in place.....and sadly they are not, hence we are not doing what you suggest.

EG

If you go to war in the middle ages looking for the enemy and leave the castle gates open and the drawbridge down.....when you come back after not finding them they could be camped in your castle.

first things first.

Thats my view FWIW

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by TRO