Steve Bruce

[Grasshopper]

35 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Excuse me Dave but at no point did I imply that I care more about Villa than GH. He knows that I know how much he cares about Villa and I would never question his passion.

I think you need to re-think what you've written. You've put words in my mouth and called me silly for something I haven't said. 

Edit: I see you mean I imply he cares more about winning an argument. Which is still not what I said but rather your way of taking it. 

I want us to win promotion. Dont worry, we'll be argueing enough about other things too (So I'll be winning enough anyway).

[TRO]

9 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

Mark

respect to you, you have villa in your heart.

Sometimes I wish I could see things as you do because you talk a lot of sense and reason in a calm and patient manner.

However, I've not seen anything in Bruce to suggest that he can put the players we have and trade in/out to play in a style that has more chance of success than this sitting back style he adopts.

It's all been dependant on "if it comes off" for the 3 pts and not a quest to dominate and make sure the pts come our way.

I fear simply more of the same from him. Aston Villa is/was not Hull SHA Sunderland sheffW Wigan or whoever he has managed.

We are a Mercedes not a Fiat or a DAF. We need Merc-standard mechanics not a low tech car-joe.

I really hope I'm wrong and that preseason and signing the likes of Whelan & SJ will all of a sudden turn Villa into a Tank steamrolling this league and topping the table from start to finish.

I just havent seen any evidence to back that.

I'll be checking us out preseason and feel that come Hull 05.08.17 there will be no excuse to not dominate this league on the pitch and in the league table.

No excuses now.

And I'll be more than livid when the boards decisions fail us again.

VTID

you won't have seen any evidence.......because we haven't got there yet.

The likes of Whelan ( assuming he comes)and Terry will give our offensive players the confidence to go forward without looking over their shoulder.....if they lose the ball, it will be won back, immediatley rather than later.....they can fully concentrate and focus on their main function.

John Terry has not come here to be holding hands with the goal keeper.....He will be pushing our lot forward at every opportunity......that I am absolutely sure about that.

I understand fully your comments about the poor football, but unlike you GH, I believe the manager knows too....its one thing knowing, but if your players can't do it, its another question.

IMO Steve Bruce and Steve Round are bringing players in to address the very issues you have been concerned about.

don't be too surprised this season, if YOU are pleasantly surprised.

Edited July 4, 2017 by TRO

[Dave J]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

you won't have seen any evidence.......because we haven't got there yet.

The likes of Whelan ( assuming he comes)and Terry will give our offensive players the confidence to go forward without looking over their shoulder.....if they lose the ball, it will be won back, immediatley rather than later.....they can fully concentrate and focus on their main function.

John Terry has not come here to be holding hands with the goal keeper.....He will be pushing our lot forward at every opportunity......that I am absolutely sure about.

I understand fully your comments about the poor football, but unlike you GH, I believe the manager knows too....its one thing knowing, but if your players can't do it, its another question.

IMO Steve Bruce and Steve Round are bringing players in to address the very issues you have been concerned about.

don't be too surprised this season, if YOU are pleasantly surprised.

But surely playing with the hand brake on is the managers call and not down to the players? I feel there is enough creativity within the squad to have been a much more expansive outfit than the one Bruce tossed over the white line- I'm afraid I side with GH and see nothing in the Bruce DNA to suggest we can expect brighter times - I hope I am wrong but I'm not holding my breath 

[TRO]

"I don't care how good a manager you think you are, how good a coach you think you are, if you haven't got good players you've got no chance"

Harry Redknapp talking to the Birmingham Mail.

says it all to me.

[Dave J]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

"I don't care how good a manager you think you are, how good a coach you think you are, if you haven't got good players you've got no chance"

Harry Redknapp talking to the Birmingham Mail.

says it all to me.

So would you not say there is any creativity in our midfield ?

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, Dave J said:

But surely playing with the hand brake on is the managers call and not down to the players? I feel there is enough creativity within the squad to have been a much more expansive outfit than the one Bruce tossed over the white line- I'm afraid I side with GH and see nothing in the Bruce DNA to suggest we can expect brighter times - I hope I am wrong but I'm not holding my breath 

You see Dave, I understand your point, but I don't think Steve Bruce had the handbrake on in the sense or context that you put it.

A team can only play to its strengths.....In my opinion, we was not strong enough as a team, to play the way you and GH wanted us to play. A manager can only do so much, if the players are not good enough to play the way you want them to......thats the very reason why we are making possibly 4 additions to the team this summer.

Last season we was not good enough.

good enough in some aspects of the game, but not good enough overall or to gain promotion..... we was not complete.

read my earlier snippet a quote from Harry Redknapp.

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, Dave J said:

So would you not say there is any creativity in our midfield ?

I think last season we was too pre- occupied with stopping the haemoragging of goals.....that for me, took centre stage.

We also had the task of gelling too many players at one given time and all this conspired to us defending in numbers.

This had a knock on effect of starving the offensive side of our game of personnel and activity.....In order to score goals we had to rely on sorties from Kodjia and this created unwanted spaces between departments allowing the opposition to unhinge us.

This coming season, I see that changing with players having more composure at the back and more comfortable with the ball not to mention the better passing ability from the back.

We will attack from the back with composure  ......not just stop goals from going in.

Edited July 4, 2017 by TRO

[terrytini]

For me it's both.

We were better than Bruce allowed us to play, but not so good that it would've been risk free to be more adventurous.

This coming season though BOTH of those factors are down to Brucie to fix, and we need to see evidence he's done so right from the Off.

[Grasshopper]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

"I don't care how good a manager you think you are, how good a coach you think you are, if you haven't got good players you've got no chance"

Harry Redknapp talking to the Birmingham Mail.

says it all to me.

Licence to spend spend spend till you relegate WH, put Portsmouth out of business and end up at the scum.

or

Buy so many shit past it british-style players that it was only a matter of time before S'land were F*****

Be careful what you wish for

Shit football/Shit results/Failure/Target/FailurePreseason/more time/Failure......

Rinse & repeat anybody?

[Jareth]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

We will attack from the back with composure  ......not just stop goals from going in.

Yeah, if we aren't sorted at the back now then we never will be. Bruce's biggest headache now is how to stitch the rest of the team together, he's got a ton of options at the mo.

[Dave J]

31 minutes ago, terrytini said:

For me it's both.

We were better than Bruce allowed us to play, but not so good that it would've been risk free to be more adventurous.

This coming season though BOTH of those factors are down to Brucie to fix, and we need to see evidence he's done so right from the Off.

This is exactly how I see the situation - we were much much better in personnel than the performances reflected and I'm afraid only one person carries the can for some of the debacles witnessed last season - particularly January time and the fact that he turned to you know who -should tell you all you need to know.

i do hope I am wrong and I will be honest enough to say so, if so but I am not holding my breath 

[TRO]

58 minutes ago, Dave J said:

This is exactly how I see the situation - we were much much better in personnel than the performances reflected and I'm afraid only one person carries the can for some of the debacles witnessed last season - particularly January time and the fact that he turned to you know who -should tell you all you need to know.

i do hope I am wrong and I will be honest enough to say so, if so but I am not holding my breath 

Dave....If a school teacher has a very disruptive class and all season he is working on how to get some order, various strategies and projects to try and fix it.

Season 2 ....all is well and the students are all working in harmony in a productive and calm environment.

looking back

When the criticism of the said teacher was taking place during season 1......how could he prove he was right when he was only in the middle of his work and all the trial and error projects were being worked on......the task was not completed, so subsequently is the criticism fair.

How can you blame the teacher/tutor for the disruption, when its the very thing he is working on.

work takes time.

I say criticise when its clear the work has not been successful......for me so far, its not yet clear, because the task is incomplete.

[Stevo985]

11 hours ago, Dave J said:

This is exactly how I see the situation - we were much much better in personnel than the performances reflected and I'm afraid only one person carries the can for some of the debacles witnessed last season - particularly January time and the fact that he turned to you know who -should tell you all you need to know.

i do hope I am wrong and I will be honest enough to say so, if so but I am not holding my breath 

No offence, but I imagine such is your obsession with Agbnolahor that if Bruce had never played him, yet results had been exactly the same, then your opinion of bruce would be the complete opposite.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Stevo985

[striker]

13 hours ago, Jareth said:

 he's got a ton of options at the mo.

That worries me even more now. Bruce couldn't settle on a system last season and has now even more options to keep changing it.

Furthermore while I understand the interest ( being light in the DM department) I'm not keen on Bruce's pursuit of Glen Whelan. Clearly with the signing of Terry and already having Jedinak in the squad Bruce is going for broke in pursuing promotion with bringing in another player who is in the twilight of his career.

The problem with that is if Villa are promoted next season then the team will need yet another rebuild to stay in the Premiership which throws out the stability argument. 

[Jareth]

14 minutes ago, striker said:

That worries me even more now. Bruce couldn't settle on a system last season and has now even more options to keep changing it.

Furthermore while I understand the interest ( being light in the DM department) I'm not keen on Bruce's pursuit of Glen Whelan. Clearly with the signing of Terry and already having Jedinak in the squad Bruce is going for broke in pursuing promotion with bringing in another player who is in the twilight of his career.

The problem with that is if Villa are promoted next season then the team will need yet another rebuild to stay in the Premiership which throws out the stability argument. 

I'm good with Whelan as Jedi can't do a whole season and if he can well he has competition. What I can't work out is how Bruce is going to set us up everywhere else, still don't think he knows who out of Landsbury / Hourihane, Green / Grealish, Kodjia / Hogan / Mcoremack. The only certain starter going forwards I can see is Adomah.

[Eastie]

39 minutes ago, striker said:

That worries me even more now. Bruce couldn't settle on a system last season and has now even more options to keep changing it.

Furthermore while I understand the interest ( being light in the DM department) I'm not keen on Bruce's pursuit of Glen Whelan. Clearly with the signing of Terry and already having Jedinak in the squad Bruce is going for broke in pursuing promotion with bringing in another player who is in the twilight of his career.

The problem with that is if Villa are promoted next season then the team will need yet another rebuild to stay in the Premiership which throws out the stability argument. 

I think if promoted we can expect considerable spending for next season - Wyness said the plan involves building 3 teams , one to get up, one to consolidate and one to kick on towards the upper end of the premiership - once promoted we can expect a vastly changed team next season with the finances there to do it.

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I'm good with Whelan as Jedi can't do a whole season and if he can well he has competition. What I can't work out is how Bruce is going to set us up everywhere else, still don't think he knows who out of Landsbury / Hourihane, Green / Grealish, Kodjia / Hogan / Mcoremack. The only certain starter going forwards I can see is Adomah.

I think he will still sign a winger.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Eastie said:

I think if promoted we can expect considerable spending for next season - Wyness said the plan involves building 3 teams , one to get up, one to consolidate and one to kick on towards the upper end of the premiership - once promoted we can expect a vastly changed team next season with the finances there to do it.

makes sense to me.

[TRO]

44 minutes ago, striker said:

That worries me even more now. Bruce couldn't settle on a system last season and has now even more options to keep changing it.

Furthermore while I understand the interest ( being light in the DM department) I'm not keen on Bruce's pursuit of Glen Whelan. Clearly with the signing of Terry and already having Jedinak in the squad Bruce is going for broke in pursuing promotion with bringing in another player who is in the twilight of his career.

The problem with that is if Villa are promoted next season then the team will need yet another rebuild to stay in the Premiership which throws out the stability argument. 

IMO He couldn't settle on a system, because he hadn't got the players to play the way he wanted.....He had plenty of players, but not the type he wanted, to create a team.

Watching them last season still too many players were content with a non-win......too many Que Sera Sera attitudes......These things are not easy to change.

Its clear to me that he is looking for players that can play, but also possess that " eye of the tiger"/ cocky devilment that is essential for promotion.

If we can bring a few in , in addition to the Chesters/Jedinaks/Huttons, the tide may turn and the Grealish's/Agbonlahor/McCormacks of this world might buy in to this and emulate their team mates attitude.

We have needed a culture change from the last 10 years, lets hope he can do it.....for me the signs are good.

When the swagger comes back I will know we are on our way.

[striker]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

IMO He couldn't settle on a system, because he hadn't got the players to play the way he wanted.....He had plenty of players, but not the type he wanted, to create a team.

Watching them last season still too many players were content with a non-win......too many Que Sera Sera attitudes......These things are not easy to change.

Its clear to me that he is looking for players that can play, but also possess that " eye of the tiger"/ cocky devilment that is essential for promotion.

If we can bring a few in , in addition to the Chesters/Jedinaks/Huttons, the tide may turn and the Grealish's/Agbonlahor/McCormacks of this world might buy in to this and emulate their team mates attitude.

We have needed a culture change from the last 10 years, lets hope he can do it.....for me the signs are good.

When the swagger comes back I will know we are on our way.

Can't agree with any of your post apart from the last two lines.

You say that too many players were content with a non win yet didn't Bruce buy two attacking midfielders and allowed neither to play their natural game asking them to sit deep. He purchased a forward who likes ball to feet yet the team kept hoofing it because midfield were sitting too deep.

Any manager has to adapt to the players he has to make an immediate impact on the team and Bruce showed signs of doing that when he first came to the club yet when given the chance to build on that with his own players 'to play the way he wanted' he then shoe horned those players into a system that didn't suit destroying the confidence of Hourihane in the process. He also didn't identify the impact of losing Kodjia would have on the team by bringing someone else in.

I think my friend you would do a very good job of being Bruce's PR man to cover all of that up by blaming the players.

I honestly believe there will be no repeat of Xia or Wyness changing the goalposts again this season considering what the expectations are concerning promotion so the team must start well and continue that until the end of the season if Bruce wants to keep his job. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by striker