Guest av1 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Not judging RDM as rubbish after 10 games - I'll go for his full 11. 10 points and 19th place looks pretty rubbish to me. Bruce had 35 games, not 38, and got 1.5 points per game, so maybe not so shit as RDM? Firstly, I'm not sticking up for RDM, the bloke is crap. But 35 games later, after inheriting that £50m of talent, and spending another bucket load in January, Bruce limped into 13th. Which is also crap. My point on Zola was pretty tongue in cheek, but i will stand by the point i was trying to make, that any remotely competent manger would have struggled to finish any lower than 13th with this squad of players. Look at the squad relative to the competition. Its embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, av1 said: Mmmn so RDM can be judged as rubbish after 10 games, Bruce can be sh#t for 38 games but deserves more time? Av1 That is not a picture that has been painted well. RDM captured 1 win Steve Bruce came in and created instant results. is there really anymore to be said? Ps I think 10-15 games is no time if I am being honest and I would agree RDM had a rough deal.....but thats football, I'm afraid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, TRO said: Don't agree with everything you write GH.....but agree with this. Only the best make it.......its how it always has been. I understand Stevo's point but it is not how all this works.....its predatory, there is no place for emotion.....you either make it or you don't. as sad as all that is.....thats the way it is. You always talk sense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, av1 said: Firstly, I'm not sticking up for RDM, the bloke is crap. But 35 games later, after inheriting that £50m of talent, and spending another bucket load in January, Bruce limped into 13th. Which is also crap. My point on Zola was pretty tongue in cheek, but i will stand by the point i was trying to make, that any remotely competent manger would have struggled to finish any lower than 13th with this squad of players. Look at the squad relative to the competition. Its embarrassing. Do you not think we underestimated The Championship in the first place and thought we'd walk it if we spent x amount? Edited May 28, 2017 by sir_gary_cahill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, TRO said: Av1 That is not a picture that has been painted well. RDM captured 1 win Steve Bruce came in and created instant results. is there really anymore to be said? Ps I think 10-15 games is no time if I am being honest and I would agree RDM had a rough deal.....but thats football, I'm afraid. Again mate I'm not sticking up for RDM, i have never rated him. I just find it interesting to compare his short stint with Bruce's much longer one, and some posters opinions on both. Bruce inherited the same squad RDM had, he then improved it significantly in the January window. Yes he immediately picked up some results but then oversaw a complete collapse in January before limping over the finish line in 13th. From the outside, that looks pretty crap, so lets take a closer look at how has panned out. Genuine question, after 35 games we should be getting an idea of style, an identity. Have you seen anything in terms of stlye of play? A plan going forward? I've seen absolutely nothing to be honest mate, just put everyone behind the ball and hope kodjia does something special. That isn't going to take us anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 14 minutes ago, av1 said: Firstly, I'm not sticking up for RDM, the bloke is crap. But 35 games later, after inheriting that £50m of talent, and spending another bucket load in January, Bruce limped into 13th. Which is also crap. My point on Zola was pretty tongue in cheek, but i will stand by the point i was trying to make, that any remotely competent manger would have struggled to finish any lower than 13th with this squad of players. Look at the squad relative to the competition. Its embarrassing. Well at least we agree about Robert "whoops, I forgot to buy a midfield" di Matteo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Do you not think we underestimated The Championship in the first place and thought we'd walk it if we spent x amount? I think the exact opposite mate, i think we gave it to much respect. The vast majority of teams in this league are atrocious, Newcastle treated the division with the contempt it deserves and won the league. We assembly a ridiculously expensive squad consisting of some of the leagues better players and set up with 10 bloke behind the ball against Burton Albion. We didn't underestimate the league, Bruce showed it far to much respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, briny_ear said: Well at least we agree about Robert "whoops, I forgot to buy a midfield" di Matteo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, av1 said: I think the exact opposite mate, i think we gave it to much respect. The vast majority of teams in this league are atrocious, Newcastle treated the division with the contempt it deserves and won the league. We assembly a ridiculously expensive squad consisting of some of the leagues better players and set up with 10 bloke behind the ball against Burton Albion. We didn't underestimate the league, Bruce showed it far to much respect. Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, av1 said: Again mate I'm not sticking up for RDM, i have never rated him. I just find it interesting to compare his short stint with Bruce's much longer one, and some posters opinions on both. Bruce inherited the same squad RDM had, he then improved it significantly in the January window. Yes he immediately picked up some results but then oversaw a complete collapse in January before limping over the finish line in 13th. From the outside, that looks pretty crap, so lets take a closer look at how has panned out. Genuine question, after 35 games we should be getting an idea of style, an identity. Have you seen anything in terms of stlye of play? A plan going forward? I've seen absolutely nothing to be honest mate, just put everyone behind the ball and hope kodjia does something special. That isn't going to take us anywhere Lets just assume for one minute that Bruce doesn't rate this squad at all......and yes its only an assumption. Do you think he can fix this in the time he has had.? Every manager has a vision of his team.....and they need the players to play it. Whether you like Steve Bruce as a manager or not, he needs the time to build a team in the shape that he wants.....I do not believe this team measures that at present. There are many managers much better than Steve Bruce, that have been given that time to build their teams. What we did last season was.......Survive thats how bad it had got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 22 minutes ago, av1 said: Again mate I'm not sticking up for RDM, i have never rated him. I just find it interesting to compare his short stint with Bruce's much longer one, and some posters opinions on both. Bruce inherited the same squad RDM had, he then improved it significantly in the January window. Yes he immediately picked up some results but then oversaw a complete collapse in January before limping over the finish line in 13th. From the outside, that looks pretty crap, so lets take a closer look at how has panned out. Genuine question, after 35 games we should be getting an idea of style, an identity. Have you seen anything in terms of stlye of play? A plan going forward? I've seen absolutely nothing to be honest mate, just put everyone behind the ball and hope kodjia does something special. That isn't going to take us anywhere Ok Lets me put is this way. If all the things that Steve Bruce has been criticised for, was in actual fact, fixed......We would have won the league. We were never going to win the league, Newcastle and Brighton were far better prepared than we. When you drop to the level we had in terms of football ability, its a long way back....style?,style?....we were looking for a win like a man wanting water in the desert. Some of the things fans are looking for are way down the line.....it will come, but not yet mate. I actually think Villa will come back when we all least expect it......sorry, but this is going to be a long road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Just now, TRO said: Lets just assume for one minute that Bruce doesn't rate this squad at all......and yes its only an assumption. Do you think he can fix this in the time he has had.? Every manager has a vision of his team.....and they need the players to play it. Whether you like Steve Bruce as a manager or not, he needs the time to build a team in the shape that he wants.....I do not believe this team measures that at present. Well he had a transfer window when he brought a whole new midfield, a left back and striker. Lets look at those signings for a second. Taylor - Fantastic signing. Bjarnason - To little time to tell, unlucky with injuries. Now the big ones, the guys that got us all excited. Lansbury - Good player, but is being played far to deep, a position his isn't used to, he therfore looks short of confidence at times. Hurihane - See Lansbury. Hogan - Completely isolated as a result of Bruce's midfield sat 40 yards behind him. Not promising is it? And without going over old ground. Many teams in this division have had a huge turnover of playing staff, have vastly inferior budgets. They at least look as though they have a plan. Did i expect to be spanking teams every week, perhaps not. But after 35 games there should at least be a little bit of improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, TRO said: I actually think Villa will come back when we all least expect it......sorry, but this is going to be a long road. Its a dead end with Bruce in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, av1 said: Well he had a transfer window when he brought a whole new midfield, a left back and striker. Lets look at those signings for a second. Taylor - Fantastic signing. Bjarnason - To little time to tell, unlucky with injuries. Now the big ones, the guys that got us all excited. Lansbury - Good player, but is being played far to deep, a position his isn't used to, he therfore looks short of confidence at times. Hurihane - See Lansbury. Hogan - Completely isolated as a result of Bruce's midfield sat 40 yards behind him. Not promising is it? And without going over old ground. Many teams in this division have had a huge turnover of playing staff, have vastly inferior budgets. They at least look as though they have a plan. Did i expect to be spanking teams every week, perhaps not. But after 35 games there should at least be a little bit of improvement. Should there.....says who?......but for me, I think there has been. just for argument sake lets say that the 2 centre backs are not good enough.....that of course is a matter of opinion and I accept that.....but just bear with me. This just about effects every player in the team......yep every player......at present Jed is protecting them.....at a cost. How can he change that in one window with all the other stuff he has had to deal with? bear in mind, that was just a "what if" scenario There is much to do mate.....and one window is not suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, av1 said: Its a dead end with Bruce in charge. well of course, that is a matter of opinion.......and one i do not share. Edited May 28, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 21 minutes ago, TRO said: Lets just assume for one minute that Bruce doesn't rate this squad at all......and yes its only an assumption. Do you think he can fix this in the time he has had.? Every manager has a vision of his team.....and they need the players to play it. Whether you like Steve Bruce as a manager or not, he needs the time to build a team in the shape that he wants.....I do not believe this team measures that at present. There are many managers much better than Steve Bruce, that have been given that time to build their teams. What we did last season was.......Survive thats how bad it had got. I think he has had more than enough time to have at least given supporters a modicum of hope that he will provide us with a team that is willing to " stick it to the opposition" Unfortunately he has not done this nor do I believe that it's in his DNA to do so I'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, TRO said: Should there.....says who?......but for me, I think there has been. Absolutely. After 35 games with the resources available, there should be a visable improvement. At very least have an identity in terms of style. There has been nothing imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Dave J said: I think he has had more than enough time to have at least given supporters a modicum of hope that he will provide us with a team that is willing to " stick it to the opposition" Unfortunately he has not done this nor do I believe that it's in his DNA to do so I'm afraid well Dave, It won't surprise you to say that I most emphatically disagree. I agree the football has been shite, so far......but where we differ is, I genuinely believe it will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, av1 said: Absolutely. After 35 games with the resources available, there should be a visable improvement. At very least have an identity in terms of style. There has been nothing imo. Av I know where you are coming from.....but IMO its too early for our demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 9 minutes ago, TRO said: Should there.....says who?......but for me, I think there has been. just for argument sake lets say that the 2 centre backs are not good enough.....that of course is a matter of opinion and I accept that.....but just bear with me. This just about effects every player in the team......yep every player......at present Jed is protecting them.....at a cost. How can he change that in one window with all the other stuff he has had to deal with? bear in mind, that was just a "what if" scenario There is much to do mate.....and one window is not suffice. But TRO would you not agree there should be some signs of improvement ? Bruce is playing with the hand brake well and truly engaged and quite frankly he does not inspire me in anyway that change is on the horizon tbh - for me he just oozes " bang average " and this is not good enough for Aston Villa imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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