Steve Bruce

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

I can't believe you still don't see it TRO !!! You still say it's the players ? Yet Redknapp had Blues on the front foot after s week ? Because that's how Redknapp plays - like Sherwood for an example from our recent past. And we are How Bruce wants us to play. He doesn't want us to do it as badly as we do, but doesn't seem to appreciate - or does he ? - that much of it is due to instruction.

Game after game after game he sets us up incredibly negatively,

I think he knows it too - my hope is he has only ever been interested in instilling resilience and defensive solidity for this season.

Endless long goal kicks to two foot tall Hogan ? Instruction.

Lansbury never past halfway ? Instruction.

Adomah always looking to stay near Hutton rather than ever turn and go  ? Instruction.

Fivd across midfield with nobody near Hogan ? Instruction.

Its been like it for thirty games. If it ISNT by instruction he is failing miserably. However I think it is, I think he has (over) priorised defence, and I think he will alter it and be more progressive next year.

First game of the season will show us . 

 

Yep!

[Mjvilla]

I wish we had a manager that could get us playing like that brilliant new manager, I presume he must be playing the most delightful football in the world right now, at palace. With recent wins at anfield and Stamford bridge and a home hammering of arsenal. 

Who is this brilliant, dynamic young manager with a brilliant philosophy who's picking up results like these?

[mykeyb]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Oh we are jumping to another angle now.....could be him, could be Steve Round......but SB must have rubber stamped it, must be his fault.

Is it game of just keep going until you can blame him for something......its convenient, just blame the manager, we have had enough of them another on might as well take the blame.

Do you blame Klopp for signing Benteke, seems ok now at palace.....Klopp must be rubbish.

Give him a break mate, who ever is at fault, not every decision will be right.

This is a much bigger job than you imagine.

ps He is not going anywhere, so my advice is embrace it or drive yourself nuts.

 

Klopp didn't sign Benteke so not sure what your point is.

I am not sure if those players were Bruce's choices, if they were then he has signed good players who don't fit into our side at this point. If he gets them into a winning team next season then great he will have proven me wrong.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Klopp didn't sign Benteke so not sure what your point is.

I am not sure if those players were Bruce's choices, if they were then he has signed good players who don't fit into our side at this point. If he gets them into a winning team next season then great he will have proven me wrong.

 

6 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Klopp didn't sign Benteke so not sure what your point is.

I am not sure if those players were Bruce's choices, if they were then he has signed good players who don't fit into our side at this point. If he gets them into a winning team next season then great he will have proven me wrong.

ok so He didn't sign him........but he couldn't get anything he wanted out of him.....that was the main point.....a top manager like him?

If he doesn't prove you wrong, he will have proven me wrong.

Its only an opinion....we have both nothing to worry about.

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

This

The game was poor today but I can forget that in a derby... the result is king.

There is still a massive amount of wok to do though. We are solid defensively (most of the time) but going forward we appear devoid of ideas.

Still, we beat the scum so I'm not going to worry about it today 

Still think we are defending resolutely but are committing too many bodies to it.....its having a detrimental effect on our offensive capability....but necessary.

but first things first.

That is not criticising, it's observing.

I think there will be a few surprises in the summer transfer window.

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by TRO

[mykeyb]

He didn't fancy him or he didn't fit into the way he wanted to play, still not sure what point you are making.

We have become hard to beat because we have a settled back 4 with a man mountain sitting in midfield to protect them, I would be surprised if we conceeded many goals being set up that way. Unfortunately that leaves us only 5 spots for offensive midfield and strike force, As others have pointed out Lansbury doesn't get in the box anywhere near as much as he did at Forest, same for Hourihane.

Today he played a front 3 is some formation, trouble is you could have driven a bus in between them all 3 were isolated and never looked a threat. Now if you are telling me they are bad players I don't agree, if you are telling me Bruce thought they would pose a threat on the Blues goal then I am concerned. To me it looked defensive and look who we were playing at home!!!!!. He is basing our attacking threat on a bit of Kodja magic and set us up exactly the same way today but Hogan doesn't play that way. Why did he not have either Grealish or Adomah much closer to Hogan today?

I suspect that Bruce will want a more mobile version of Jedinak which will help but I genuinely don't see how he will be able to play a Hogan Kodja front two and have a wide man and play Lansbury and Hourihane.

 

[AVFCDAN]

Setting yourself up to not get beat every game doesn't get you promoted, that's for sure.

[mykeyb]

29 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

I wish we had a manager that could get us playing like that brilliant new manager, I presume he must be playing the most delightful football in the world right now, at palace. With recent wins at anfield and Stamford bridge and a home hammering of arsenal. 

Who is this brilliant, dynamic young manager with a brilliant philosophy who's picking up results like these?

Since you reference the Dudley kid, why do you think his record at Palace is so good, they were in freefall before he joined?

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, AVFCDAN said:

Setting yourself up to not get beat every game doesn't get you promoted, that's for sure.

In isolation, absolutely not.

but when your first priority was to avoid relegation, perhaps you could be forgiven for doing so.

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

He didn't fancy him or he didn't fit into the way he wanted to play, still not sure what point you are making.

We have become hard to beat because we have a settled back 4 with a man mountain sitting in midfield to protect them, I would be surprised if we conceeded many goals being set up that way. Unfortunately that leaves us only 5 spots for offensive midfield and strike force, As others have pointed out Lansbury doesn't get in the box anywhere near as much as he did at Forest, same for Hourihane.

Today he played a front 3 is some formation, trouble is you could have driven a bus in between them all 3 were isolated and never looked a threat. Now if you are telling me they are bad players I don't agree, if you are telling me Bruce thought they would pose a threat on the Blues goal then I am concerned. To me it looked defensive and look who we were playing at home!!!!!. He is basing our attacking threat on a bit of Kodja magic and set us up exactly the same way today but Hogan doesn't play that way. Why did he not have either Grealish or Adomah much closer to Hogan today?

I suspect that Bruce will want a more mobile version of Jedinak which will help but I genuinely don't see how he will be able to play a Hogan Kodja front two and have a wide man and play Lansbury and Hourihane.

 

why don't you write to him and ask him or when he does a sports forum ask him.

I did it once to Graham Taylor.....I got all the answers i needed and was more enlightened in the process....they can't always disclose their thoughts in public but one on one they sometimes do.

.......don't tell me....it shows.....i beat you to it

Edited April 23, 2017 by TRO

[mykeyb]

Graham Taylor could build a team from scratch, had them play to their strengths and got Villa to a top two position. If Bruce achieves similar I will put pen to paper to congratulate him, I don't want to know why he is so defensively minded but then look where he played, Maybe that's why our management team of Little, Gregory and Evans did so well.

[Mjvilla]

20 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Since you reference the Dudley kid, why do you think his record at Palace is so good, they were in freefall before he joined?

Organisation, becoming harder to beat, defending well and allowing players like zaha, puncheon, benteke to express themselves going forward but also have them tracking back.  I'm not trying to make a comparison with bruce, because big Sam is doing a fantastic job whilst Bruce is doing a mediocre job. 

Just saying that a lot has been made of style and brand of football. Palace don't have the best style and brand of football but they are well organised and do their jobs well and they are getting results. 

[VillanousOne]

It's been said a lot on here, until Bruce sets us up to win rather than to avoid losing we will never progress.

I do understand why he goes with safety first, somehow I don't think he knows what his best team are, and despite some very good individuals defence aside the rest don't yet make up a balanced team.

But if he can't change that during the summer then the excuses, good will and patience can't go on forever even if I agree changing manager is not always or in our case ever the answer.

 

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

So Terry what is your point?

• If the music was screechy and shit, would you blame Simon Rattle.....no, the MusIcians have to take responsibility for their part.
• Is it case of just having a pop at me for defending HIM when I have already said that I see the same football as all those complaining about him, or what.
• He has already said himself that we do not take care of the ball enough, so is well aware of the problem of spectacle.
• Steve has already said today it will be a busy summer, what does that tell you Terry?.....job far from complete.....yet you still argue manager.
• He has openly said he has set us up as "Hard to beat" , yet you still bang the same drum.
• How do you know that some of the things you call Instruction, literally are, its just your take on it.....it may well be, but equally it may well be  a part of hard to beat.Why don't you write to him and ask him?
• You then go on to explain, you think you know what it is and form a point of mitigation of which I am comfortable with.....you then go back again and partially threaten his first game of the season.....6-0 or else oh and 75% possession......ok I am teasing a tad.
• It was only in some of your most recent posts, SB seemed to have secured some of your support, now this.

Its early days mate....It is obvious for me, He is not as trusting with what he has got to play open attacking football, rightly or wrongly.That is what I believe. I think he see's too many losing the ball too easily when taking on an opponent and puts us on the defensive too often.

For anyone to suggest he don't know what he is doing, for me, is ludicrous.....you might not like it......but he knows what he is doing.

Quite the opposite my point is he knows exactly what he's doing but I think he's mistaken - he is overdoing the caution.

Agree or not it's not exactly accusing him of war crimes.

And many many people I talk with share the view.

In my view although you argue in favour of him the logic of your points is actually detracting from him.

The way you describe it one is left thinking (a) so unlike other Managers in the League he can't make average players play well, even after 30 games ? and (b) he has so little authority the players are just doing what they like.

My view on the other hand says he is choosing that they play this style, and they are doing as they are told - not as in individual choices of course but as regards the system ( e.g. Lansbury).

I actually think my view credits him with more ability than yours !

He has my support I think the way he got the team back winning after the slump was brilliant. A turning point for us as a Club because he has instilled something money can't buy. Call it resilience, bouncebackability, character.

It will prove invaluable it was vital we stopped being a soft target.

100% praise to him AND to his players - who I clearly rate a lot higher than you !!

But I see no reason why supporting him as being the right man to continue should mean I find him faultless.

Im sorry you think I keep ' banging the same drum' but I could equally say you do that by constantly blaming the players. Everyone on here repeats themselves. I will stop saying I think he is too cautious if/ when I see less caution - simple !

As for "6-0 or else and 75% possession" that's beneath you. I've NEVER asked for lots of possession OR big wins. And I didn't this time.

The reason the first game will tell all we need to know is simple. We will either play as we have this year, with a back four, a deep five, and an isolated striker.....we will sit back and absorb pressure, we will play no more than three genuinely creative players and even these will sit deep....OR...we won't.

Thrvresult and the possession stats won't tell us anything, but the style will, I hope ( and believe) it will be a style with more emphasis on taking the game to sides. 

Whereas in your book unles we replace half a side we are stuck playing like this ? I don't buy it. Pretty much every side we've played plays better football so I'm sure we can.

I repeat, I think it's by choice he is so cautious, I understand it, I appreciate we had to develop a backbone, but I think it's overdone and will need to change.

Not in the least incompatible with supporting him continuing.

[The Fun Factory]

If you could study to learn how to win ugly, our manager would be Doctor Bruce.  That was hard going today.

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Hey Dave hold on a minute.....you could be right, I could be wrong and I will be the first to come on here and say so.

and incidently, I have often chuckled at Blind Faith, so I know exactly what you are saying.

Look.....without all the explanations and reasoning.....Despite watching football at present fit for the rubbish tip.....I still think he is the right manager for us ant this time and I think he will get us up.....but I don't know when.

He has just said today he will be having a busy summer, so that tell me many changes.

Its not Blind Faith Dave......rightly or wrongly.....I still don't think this team is balanced and I still don't think enough of our players dominate their position and dominate the ball.

and futhermore, I do not support stability, just for the sake of it......but I do think we desperately need some.

This job is not too big for Steve Bruce and he has plenty of support in Steve Round etc.....But what I do feel passionately about, is its not a job that can be turned around as quick as some of us seem to think is can......such is where we have come from.

Just my Opinion, nothing more nothing less.

I really do hope you're right TRO because he is definitely going to start next season with us and I want to win every game and storm the league. I just don't have as much faith in him, blind or otherwise, that you do. I think by now we should be seeing signs of a consistent plan and players should be more comfortable with each other. Because when players are more at home playing together things like poor first touches and stray passes become less frequent. 

By the way I don't have a problem with a little blind faith, after all we are supporters and should be supportive. Sometimes blind faith is all we have to cling on to!

[DCJonah]

38 minutes ago, TRO said:

In isolation, absolutely not.

but when your first priority was to avoid relegation, perhaps you could be forgiven for doing so.

Sorry mate but that is rubbish. 

You could say that maybe for his first few games. But the threat of relegation went away a good while ago. And we still continue playing shit. 

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Oh we are jumping to another angle now.....could be him, could be Steve Round......but SB must have rubber stamped it, must be his fault.

Is it game of just keep going until you can blame him for something......its convenient, just blame the manager, we have had enough of them another on might as well take the blame.

Do you blame Klopp for signing Benteke, seems ok now at palace.....Klopp must be rubbish.

Give him a break mate, who ever is at fault, not every decision will be right.

This is a much bigger job than you imagine.

ps He is not going anywhere, so my advice is embrace it or drive yourself nuts.

 

Well if you keep saying the players are to blame you've led yourself up an alley where the Manager who signed them can be criticised.

Again my view is far more supportive of Bruce - despite you thinking it isn't.

Because in my view the players he signed were all good buys....you mention Lansbury .... did you watch Lansbury at Forest he was often going past the front men......now he doesn't you blame the player ?

Ill stick with this..., Manager is crucial.... not at the mercy of his players.

And Steve Bruce is capable authorative and intelligent...if we are playing a certain way it's his choice - he isn't being thwarted by poor players or - what would be even more damning - players who were fine until they got here but won't play for Bruce .

Its a choice, those who say he is a dinosaur are wrong, as are those like you who blame the players.

He can/ could have us playing more on the front foot and we have players who can do it,

Hopefully he will feel that side of the game is now the priority

[mykeyb]

24 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Organisation, becoming harder to beat, defending well and allowing players like zaha, puncheon, benteke to express themselves going forward but also have them tracking back.  I'm not trying to make a comparison with bruce, because big Sam is doing a fantastic job whilst Bruce is doing a mediocre job. 

Just saying that a lot has been made of style and brand of football. Palace don't have the best style and brand of football but they are well organised and do their jobs well and they are getting results. 

I totally agree, give the players a system and they can express themselves.

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, AVFCDAN said:

Setting yourself up to not get beat every game doesn't get you promoted, that's for sure.

No. And it must change next year.

But maybe it was right for this year. We were dreadfully close to being powderpuff pushovers.

That, for me, excuses Bruce ( but - as I've said- ) I think he's overdone it.

At any rate he absolutely can't leave it at that for next year.

And I'm afraid only a tiny minority of fans will take the view that Lansbury, Hourihane, Green, Kodja, and Adomah- as a minimum- are somehow not good enough to take the game to the opposition

Edited April 23, 2017 by terrytini