Eastie Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, av1 said: I agree. I think the remainder of the season (sha aside) should have been purely experimental. In the grand scheme of things, I'm not really bothered if we finish 9th or 12th whatever. I think 90% of the fans would except a couple of loses if Bruce started experimenting for next year. Certainly the likes of bree , green and hogan need games to establish themselves . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, TRO said: You ridicule the past, but in many cases principles remain......for sure, there have been many changes in football.....but equally you could sit down and analyse how many things haven't changed. many of the changes you allude to are superficial or cosmetic......the main principles of the game are the same today as was present decades ago.....and will be the same decades in to the future. Tony Xia may have more faith in SB than me, so I think you may have that arse about face. I still don't think the team is right......it will take more surgery IMO to get it right. How little time managers have is more of a current trend rather than a modern thinking foresight.....IMO it's not necessarily right. Not sure I get any of the bolded part tbh. The ball is still round and you still need to score more than your opponent to win, is that it? Football has changed beyond recognition since the Bosman ruling and the silly influx of money. Player Agents run football now. The time of Totti's and Guy Roux's is gone. Managers given little time might not be right or wrong, but it's the new standard, not a trend that will pass anytime soon. All IMO as always. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 35 minutes ago, Eastie said: Certainly the likes of bree , green and hogan need games to establish themselves . Absolutely. I see absolutely no reason why they shouldn't start the remaining games. I know its a bit of cliche, and one we all trotted out last Xmas once relegation looked nailed on, but we have kind of got a bit of headstart on some of our rivals atm in that we can start preparing for next year now. Take Micah Richards for instance. Now i don't want to start needlessly bashing players, but why have him in todays match day squad? He probably won't be here next season so i don't see the valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 48 minutes ago, av1 said: I agree mate, but we must have spent north of £100m over the last few windows and yet many (like yourself) are sceptical of automatic promotion from the championship next season. I think that strengthens the point made by @Dr_Pangloss that we have grossly overspent. I think we have overspent, but unlike many teams we are competing against we are under more pressure for quick results......hence more desperation to sign the players to make their mark for us, but it doesn't always work like that. our club has far bigger overheads than any other club we are up against with the exception of Newcastle......so the pressures build to sign the right players, to bring home the bacon. In my opinion, we are still some way short of signing the right players for the right price......its been better with some, but others have not yet delivered. I still see players we have signed as iffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 36 minutes ago, sne said: Not sure I get any of the bolded part tbh. The ball is still round and you still need to score more than your opponent to win, is that it? Football has changed beyond recognition since the Bosman ruling and the silly influx of money. Player Agents run football now. The time of Totti's and Guy Roux's is gone. Managers given little time might not be right or wrong, but it's the new standard, not a trend that will pass anytime soon. All IMO as always. Like I say, cosmetic. usually the team with the best players, wins the competitions.......what exactly has ever changed. The way you get them , yeah, that's changed.....hence my points. if you don't get the bolded bits.....I can't help you, sorry. There is one thing not getting the argument , there is another ,because you find it easier to dismiss it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TRO said: I think we have overspent, but unlike many teams we are competing against we are under more pressure for quick results......hence more desperation to sign the players to make their mark for us, but it doesn't always work like that. our club has far bigger overheads than any other club we are up against with the exception of Newcastle......so the pressures build to sign the right players, to bring home the bacon. In my opinion, we are still some way short of signing the right players for the right price......its been better with some, but others have not yet delivered. I still see players we have signed as iffy. I agree with all of that mate, but what we have spent in this league will be as mind boggling to some of our opponents as we view the likes of UTD and City. Its probably also as mind boggling to some of players we have brought to the club. Which begs another question. Take your recent posts in the Amavi thread, you talk about a kind of soft underbelly with the lad. Now I'm in complete agreement with that assessment. What i do wonder, and what i read from Dr Panglos post (unless I've misread his post which is entirely possible because I've had a couple of drams of whisky ), is if throwing about the sort of money we have done is contributing to that soft underbelly? Edited April 15, 2017 by av1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TRO said: Like I say, cosmetic. usually the team with the best players, wins the competitions.......what exactly has ever changed. The way you get them , yeah, that's changed.....hence my points. if you don't get the bolded bits.....I can't help you, sorry. There is one thing not getting the argument , there is another ,because you find it easier to dismiss it Not sure you even have an argument but fair enough. Edit: We are obviously talking about different things here so I don't see this going anywhere. Edited April 15, 2017 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AntrimBlack Posted April 15, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2017 I see posters now saying perhaps no promotion next season, but the season after, and yet more signings. The signings we made this season should have been enough to get us up this season, but RDM and Bruce have both failed miserably, both with the signings they made, and then how they managed them.. Never mind spending money on more players, spend it on a decent manager. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 How I imagines some posters greeted today's result. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Bruce has his flaws, i guess thats why managing us in the championship is the biggest gig the bloke has ever had. But lets not beat around the bush here, if we don't get promoted next season we are up shit creek without a paddle. So for me we have one shot to get it right next next year. So do we stick with the tried and trusted, a bloke that has a history of success in this league, even though his style of play is crap to watch? Or do we GAMBLE on a Monk, a Wagner, a Johnson? None of whom have managed a club the size of Villa, and none of whom have been promoted from championship. It might be rubbish to watch, but taking everything into account, sticking with Bruce is a no brainer in my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Ultimately though, we need to shift some of the shit this summer (Amavi and Bacuna to name 2 of the starters today), get 3 or 4 new faces in and start playing considerably better. I like Bruce and want him to succeed but I need to see some improvement. You can get away with gritty/industrious football if you are getting results but the moment you don't, it just looks poor. The man has 4 promotions to his name so i'm relatively comfortable at the minute that he has a plan to get us up next season. I hope my faith isn't misplaced. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Xela said: Ultimately though, we need to shift some of the shit this summer (Amavi and Bacuna to name 2 of the starters today), get 3 or 4 new faces in and start playing considerably better. I like Bruce and want him to succeed but I need to see some improvement. You can get away with gritty/industrious football if you are getting results but the moment you don't, it just looks poor. The man has 4 promotions to his name so i'm relatively comfortable at the minute that he has a plan to get us up next season. I hope my faith isn't misplaced. Couldn't agree more - I also believe in Bruce but will judge him on results and the last 2 games have not been good enough - set up too negatively and wrong starting selection for me . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Xela said: Ultimately though, we need to shift some of the shit this summer (Amavi and Bacuna to name 2 of the starters today), get 3 or 4 new faces in and start playing considerably better. I don't disagree with that mate, but it feels like we've been saying that for the last 5yrs. I guess thats why it all went pear shaped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, Eastie said: Couldn't agree more - I also believe in Bruce but will judge him on results and the last 2 games have not been good enough - set up too negatively and wrong starting selection for me . Exactly. Bruce is never going to be a flair manager, he's more of a grind a result out boss and it has served him well when getting out of this division 4 times. However, as you say, the results in the last 2 games aren't good enough. I can't see us getting much out of our next game either. Pressure is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, av1 said: I don't disagree with that mate, but it feels like we've been saying that for the last 5yrs. I guess thats why it all went pear shaped. I know! Thing is, Bruce goes, a new manager and staff comes in and its a new squad again. We can't keep doing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Xela said: I know! Thing is, Bruce goes, a new manager and staff comes in and its a new squad again. We can't keep doing it! Vital we get off to a decent start next season as the pressure will grow quickly if we don't . Edited April 15, 2017 by Eastie 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Xela said: Exactly. Bruce is never going to be a flair manager, he's more of a grind a result out boss and it has served him well when getting out of this division 4 times. However, as you say, the results in the last 2 games aren't good enough. I can't see us getting much out of our next game either. Pressure is on. We've only lost to the teams in 3rd and 5th places in our last... 11(?) games? The problem is that, rightly or wrongly, our fans expect us to beat everyone in the division with the exception of maybe Newcastle. The swings of opinion game on game is quite amusing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 20 minutes ago, av1 said: Bruce has his flaws, i guess thats why managing us in the championship is the biggest gig the bloke has ever had. But lets not beat around the bush here, if we don't get promoted next season we are up shit creek without a paddle. So for me we have one shot to get it right next next year. So do we stick with the tried and trusted, a bloke that has a history of success in this league, even though his style of play is crap to watch? Or do we GAMBLE on a Monk, a Wagner, a Johnson? None of whom have managed a club the size of Villa, and none of whom have been promoted from championship. It might be rubbish to watch, but taking everything into account, sticking with Bruce is a no brainer in my humble opinion. Lee Johnson..???? That's not a gamble. That would be absolutely idiotic. As for monk, he'd be no more of a gamble than sticking with Bruce would be imo. What he's done with leeds this season has been remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: We've only lost to the teams in 3rd and 5th places in our last... 11(?) games? The problem is that, rightly or wrongly, our fans expect us to beat everyone in the division with the exception of maybe Newcastle. The swings of opinion game on game is quite amusing. I agree but the chances are, these teams will be in the league next season, certainly one of them will be. I'd like to see us being able to compete with them by now. Arguably we have a better team on paper? The pressure will be enormous going into next season, and rightly so, judging by how much we have spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: We've only lost to the teams in 3rd and 5th places in our last... 11(?) games? The problem is that, rightly or wrongly, our fans expect us to beat everyone in the division with the exception of maybe Newcastle. The swings of opinion game on game is quite amusing. I agree but the chances are, these teams will be in the league next season, certainly one of them will be. I'd like to see us being able to compete with them by now. Arguably we have a better team on paper? The pressure will be enormous going into next season, and rightly so, judging by how much we have spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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