theboyangel Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, HolteExile said: He gets little sympathy on that one from me as he agreed to Tish going out on loan. Even allowing Westwood to go left us very light in numbers and options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, theboyangel said: I can't agree with the 5-3-2 formation for us. On paper it should work but it has been adopted so negatively. I imagine with jedinak in there too we'd almost be playing 6 at the back and the gaps between midfield and attack would be even greater. Which has been an issue. We have to stop setting our stall out within our own area and inviting teams on. Instead we need to press higher up the pitch and pressurise the opposition in their own half, winning the midfield area. How often have we seen an opposition defence under pressure, causing misplaced passes or mistakes? When jedinak eventually returns, stick him in front of a back four. Worst case scenario is he drops into the back line as a makeshift cb. Bruce needs to work out how to deploy hourihane and Lansbury together and coach them to be effective together (I won't hold my breath on this happening though) up top we have kodjia, adomah and hogan (with green and Grealish on standby). All three are decent when going at the defence but with little or no support what's the point? we have the makings of a successful team, but need positive tactics and coaching to make them click. However I don't believe Bruce has it in him to achieve it as he's already too afraid of results so sets up not to lose. I am not convinced by this " negatively setup" argument.....we can't keep anybody out.....its the players not the system. This has been going on for seasons. When the Blues won the League cup against Arsenal in 2011.....they could be argued as negatively set up......but they won, because they grafted for every minute and got physically in to their opponents it denied Arsenal the air to breathe and rattled them......as irritating as it is to watch.....you can win doing that by applying yourself......what did we do in the FA CUP FINAL stood off and let the play and wondered why we got buried. Inter Milan @ the Bernabeu......denied Real Madrid space when playing under Mourinho...were they "negatively set up"?....but they won. Villa during the late seventies ,early 80's grafted the legs off opponents......Ron with his 110% workrate clip......Carradus and Bremner, grafting their tits off......I was at Stoke away and a stoke fan accused us of being negative we drew 1-1 and went on to win the league. This team are not competitively at the races......They are too easy to play against, they are fragile, they have a very soft underbelly and despite the changes in personnel......this dastardly trait persists. PS I seen it in Westwood but it is still there, despite him pps Leicester were as tight as a ducks arse last season.....why have they suddenly gone like a sieve......because the collective work is not going in. Edited February 15, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, tinker said: It may well be that the players he needs to compliment those two are injured, either way their good players and their Bruce's players. So we're pinning all our hopes of the new players working on 32yr old jedinak?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, mykeyb said: Bunn Bree Chester Baker Taylor/Amavi Jedinak Gardner - Hourihane - Lansbury - Thor Hogan - Kodja Wouldnt be pretty by any stretch, might swap Adomah in for Gardner if Adomah could produce some end product. 12 players would help, but might not be enough. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, theboyangel said: So we're pinning all our hopes of the new players working on 32yr old jedinak?? I thought it was just to be remotely competitive Edited February 15, 2017 by VILLAMARV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, TRO said: I am not convinced by this " negatively setup" argument.....we can't keep anybody out.....its the players not the system. This has been going on for seasons. When the Blues won the League cup against Arsenal in 2011.....they could be argued as negatively set up......but they won, because they grafted for every minute and got physically in to their opponents it denied Arsenal the air to breathe and rattled them......as irritating as it is to watch.....you can win doing that by applying yourself......what did we do in the FA CUP FINAL stood off and let the play and wondered why we got buried. Inter Milan @ the Bernabeu......denied Real space to play under Mourinho Villa during the late seventies ,early 80's grafted the legs off opponents......Ron with his 110% workrate clip......Carradus and Bremner, grafting their tits off. This team are not competitively at the races......They are too easy to play against, they are fragile, they have a very soft underbelly and despite the changes in personnel......this dastardly trait persists. PS I seen it in Westwood but it is still there, despite him gone. I've seen 3-5-2 work, with the right players but we have camped out in our own penalty on each occasion it was deployed therefore I would say it is a negative approach by Bruce. Bruce should be coaching them to flood the midfield, leaving little or nothing to get through to our centre backs and providing a solid base in the middle of the park to set up attacks. Whichever formation Bruce deploys, we end up with too greater distance between our attackers and the rest of the team. Bruce is the one that can address this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, theboyangel said: So we're pinning all our hopes of the new players working on 32yr old jedinak?? I have to shake my head is disbelief at that comment......Have you ever heard of balance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, theboyangel said: I've seen 3-5-2 work, with the right players but we have camped out in our own penalty on each occasion it was deployed therefore I would say it is a negative approach by Bruce. Bruce should be coaching them to flood the midfield, leaving little or nothing to get through to our centre backs and providing a solid base in the middle of the park to set up attacks. Whichever formation Bruce deploys, we end up with too greater distance between our attackers and the rest of the team. Bruce is the one that can address this. In the same way the Ranieri is trying to address his problem. Look , what I am saying is ......In my view its more about the players than the system. you can play 8 in defence.....but if no challenges come in and players stand off, if there is not cohesion between them, if they are not organised, it will make little difference. We have players not doing their job. Is it the manager not telling them properly......or is it them not carrying out his instructions properly. I am not dismissing your claim of "set up" being irrelevant.....I'm just saying I believe that the problem is more with the balance and the players themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 16 minutes ago, TRO said: They are too easy to play against Unfortunately, this. The odd individual will press, but it's never as a team and we're easy to play around. When we go forward the instinct is always to turn back and never drive in to the box. As a defender, I'd enjoy playing against Villa, it'd be a much easier job than against other sides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 7 hours ago, markavfc40 said: It hasn’t been down to a lack of effort during this poor run certainly not of the games I have been at. If we just look at the two most recent games it has been individual defensive errors that have done for us. Elphick slipping against Ipswich, Amavi giving away a stupid pen away then three players fluffing a clearance for the third. Last night we had more possession and had three or four times as many shots as Barnsley. I do genuinely believe the players are trying and even at 3-1 down we really pushed and tried to get back into the game. Throwing out lines like he has lost the dressing room sound good but they are baseless. I am not seeing a lack of effort, I am not seeing any descent in the ranks. None of the above is to say his job shouldn’t be under threat. It should. It hasn’t gotten to the stage where I think those above him are looking to pull the trigger though. I completely disagree Mark, I certainly do feel it has a lack of effort. Yes individual errors have cost us but the effort has been much lower than what I expect. I mean passing a couple yards successfully doesn't t require much effort. It's been pretty poor top really really shocking. From the defence to the woeful midfield. And don't get me started that hopeless buffoon Johnstone! 5the biggest cockup Bruce has made is bringing that imbecile to the club 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, TRO said: In the same way the Ranieri is trying to address his problem. Look , what I am saying is ......In my view its more about the players than the system. you can play 8 in defence.....but if no challenges come in and players stand off, if there is not cohesion between them, if they are not organised, it will make little difference. We have players not doing their job. Is it the manager not telling them properly......or is it them not carrying out his instructions properly. I am not dismissing your claim of "set up" being irrelevant.....I'm just saying I believe that the problem is more with the balance and the players themselves. I get what you're saying TRO but if the players aren't doing what Bruce is asking then he needs to give them a rocket up the arse. however, we also need to train with the intensity as if playing a competitive match and if they're not doing it, again it falls to Bruce to resolve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA_Villa Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 All those fans saying he still needs time to get right players playing in the right positions, and it's too early to pull the plug. Can you we get some perspective here. It's not as if our players are going out and playing against Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool to try get a result. We have just lost to Barnsley, Ipswich and Forest. Is this what we have settled for, if so we should be ashamed of ourselves. These are teams that an anywhere decent club would be rolling over every week. Tell me how much worse it can get. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, TRO said: I have to shake my head is disbelief at that comment......Have you ever heard of balance. It was tongue in cheek tro. But our only player to give us a balanced midfield is 32 and currently crocked... where's the alternative? Edited February 15, 2017 by theboyangel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post USA_Villa Posted February 15, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 15, 2017 I'm struggling to see how this could have been set up any better for Steve Bruce. He walked in to the following: An owner that has backed him financially The opportunity to bring in his own training staff One of the largest fan bases in the division A terrible run from the previous manager, for which it was difficult to do any worse One of the top 5 training facilities in the country The ability to attract top players with premier league wages All this and he has completely messed it up. Anyone that messes it up as badly as he has should be gone already. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Counting down the days till he goes, probably in the summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2017 17 minutes ago, theboyangel said: It was tongue in cheek tro. But our only player to give us a balanced midfield is 32 and currently crocked... where's the alternative? Gardner, he played the role at Forest with Lansbury 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 minute ago, tinker said: Gardner, he played the role at Forest with Lansbury I'm sorry but he is not good enough even in this league. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) I hope that he stays How many times are we going to keep changing a manager because of some bad form? Villa will never be the club that we once were if we keep sacking managers. He is a very capable manager at this level and he deserves the time to make things right and make us effective. Edited February 15, 2017 by Reivax_Villa 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) how do you become so crap overnight? I dont think you do. this bloke has been round the block a few times, he knows what he's doing etc etc. he started off with a good run of wins and added impetus to the team/club..... it begs the question have the players stopped playing for him? Is there an under lying problem we are not aware of? I think there might be more than this than meets the eye. I would love to be a fly on the wall at BH/VP. Edited February 15, 2017 by imavillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, theboyangel said: I'm sorry but he is not good enough even in this league. Hes better than no one and should be given a chance to settle in the team while Jeds out, otherwise we go back to giving up on players without giving them a fair chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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