The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[StefanAVFC]

8 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Unsurprisingly, the European Medicines Agency and European Banking Authority are leaving. More surprisingly (/bizarrely?) David Davis seems to think he can keep them. 

Also, unquestionably qualified for the role Amber Rudd seems to be mulling the idea of offering special 2 year visas to people from the EU to prop up the hospitality and retail sectors, as it's become clear those industries rely on young immigrant workers. Great right?! Except... It is only for 2 years and you can only work in those sectors. Who on earth is going to come over here to work as a barista for 2 years and then get frog marched home? 'Hey Poles! Come to Britain and do a shit job for 2 years with no prospect of building a life here afterwards'. Apparently it's based on a scheme we've had in place for Hong Kong, Canada and Australia (amongst others) which has been so attractive it's brought 42k here from countries with a combined 350m population...

They have no idea what they're doing.

But we voted for it so it must be right.

[Davkaus]

We can just fill all of the jobs with lazy brits, it'll be fine  

[chrisp65]

Barista Visas?

Let them drink tea!

[Chindie]

The Viewspaper has reported today that the oft quoted economists report that suggested we'd be better off under WTO rules with the EU has been more or less, shockingly, entirely debunked as complete horseshit.

[tonyh29]

The Brexit Exodus continues

 

The City continues to be a jobs magnet despite some financial services jobs being shifted to Europe, a report suggests.

The Morgan McKinley London Employment Monitor registered a double-digit jump in financial sector vacancies last month.

The number of financial jobs in London grew by 17% in March, compared to February; and 13% year-on-year for a total of 8,145 new openings.

 

[blandy]

On 4/17/2017 at 20:14, chrisp65 said:

Let them drink tea!

 

Yes, good old proper English tea, from England - none of this fancy foreign muck.

 

oh, really...is it, oh! Well I suppose that's OK as India is part of our Empire. Rule Britannia!

[blandy]

27 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

The Brexit Exodus continues

Bit of a mixed bag of stuff in that report - which is kind of what you'd maybe expect at the start of the process.

[Chindie]

Brexit ministers 'invincibly ignorant'

Quote

A former judge at the European Court of Justice has slammed the “invincible ignorance” of Brexit-backing ministers who believe they can free the UK from the court’s influence.

Professor Sir David Edward told The Independent he was “astonished” at what he called misleading promises of autonomy from the court, made by Brexiteer politicians.

A very good article in the Viewspaper again. A few choice cuts...

Quote

“You can escape the jurisdiction of the ECJ, but you have got to comply with EU standards if you are going to export into the EU,” he told The Independent. 

“And who decides what these standards are ultimately if there’s a problem? It’s the ECJ.”

Quote

The professor emeritus at the University of Edinburgh School of Law said the ECJ was not “stuffed with European judges who imposed their will on the unwilling British people”.

He added: “A great number of cases we decided were brought by British people precisely in order to be able to trade freely."

Quote

“When we leave the EU, all rights and obligations cease. However, the reality is any UK business that wishes to do business in Europe will in effect have to comply with the relevant rules, so the idea we have some pure sovereign regulatory authority in the UK will simply not be true,” he said. 

But it's a good article and worth a read in full. 

[Awol]

15 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Brexit ministers 'invincibly ignorant'

A very good article in the Viewspaper again. A few choice cuts...

But it's a good article and worth a read in full. 

Of course UK firms exporting to the EU will have to comply with EU standards, just as UK exports to the US, or Japan or Australia or in fact anywhere outside the EU will have to comply with relevant local standards over which we have no influence. So what? He's knocking down an argument that  no one is making then saying "ha! So there!"

British courts will not be subordinated to the ECJ post Brexit, the rest of that Indie article is just waffle. 

[NurembergVillan]

Did I miss the bit where everyone who favours right wing politics got teleported back to the 1950s?

[snowychap]

 

 

[Chindie]

2 hours ago, Awol said:

Of course UK firms exporting to the EU will have to comply with EU standards, just as UK exports to the US, or Japan or Australia or in fact anywhere outside the EU will have to comply with relevant local standards over which we have no influence. So what? He's knocking down an argument that  no one is making then saying "ha! So there!"

British courts will not be subordinated to the ECJ post Brexit, the rest of that Indie article is just waffle. 

The problem is a lot of people won't be happy to hear that, and the government is happy banging the drum that they don't have to hear it, despite it being blindingly obvious they will. It's also nicely highlighting why the sovereignty argument was always utter nonsense. No nation is sovereign whilst it does trade outside it's borders.

[chrisp65]

13 minutes ago, Chindie said:

 No nation is sovereign whilst it does trade outside it's borders.

Negative nonsense, all we need to do now is invest and create separate products and production lines for EU compliant exports and 'our other stuff'.

That, coupled with WTO tariffs on the imports that we need to build the stuff we export, should keep prices well down.

Ignorance is bliss. We have about 2 years of bliss left.

[blandy]

2 hours ago, Awol said:

Of course UK firms exporting to the EU will have to comply with EU standards, just as UK exports to the US, or Japan or Australia or in fact anywhere outside the EU will have to comply with relevant local standards over which we have no influence. So what? He's knocking down an argument that  no one is making then saying "ha! So there!"

British courts will not be subordinated to the ECJ post Brexit, the rest of that Indie article is just waffle. 

It's not a specious argument. If, as it's right to say, the UK has to comply with EU regs and standards to export to the EU and bearing in mind that at the moment we are part of the team setting those rules, then once we leave we'll have to abide by rules we no longer have any influence over. That's not "taking back control" that's giving up (some) control. And that kind of set of events will occur not just over trade, but over other arrangements with the EU.

You persuaded me a while back about the merit of not using the ECJ to arbitrate i the event of trade related disputes between UK and EU after we've left, so there's that I suppose - though whatever we do use instead will also not be under our control.

The article seems well argued to me, though I'm no expert.

[Chindie]

13 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Negative nonsense, all we need to do now is invest and create separate products and production lines for EU compliant exports and 'our other stuff'.

That, coupled with WTO tariffs on the imports that we need to build the stuff we export, should keep prices well down.

Ignorance is bliss. We have about 2 years of bliss left.

They'll buy the jam we give them and they'll damn well like it.

[NurembergVillan]

Maybe John Redwood's tweet was right?

I'm unashamedly putting this in the Pics thread too, because it's ace and because it's true.

 

[Chindie]

Are there any British car manufacturers anymore? I suppose there might be a few shed outfits (Noble etc?) but they're not exactly cars for the masses and the engines are imported. Even Aston Martin (are they British again?) use German engines now.

Does Nissan count because the Mackems bolt some bits together off the ship from Hokkaido?

[Awol]

54 minutes ago, blandy said:

It's not a specious argument. If, as it's right to say, the UK has to comply with EU regs and standards to export to the EU and bearing in mind that at the moment we are part of the team setting those rules, then once we leave we'll have to abide by rules we no longer have any influence over. That's not "taking back control" that's giving up (some) control. And that kind of set of events will occur not just over trade, but over other arrangements with the EU.

Yes we give up the ability to participate in rule making for the EU single market. As per the post you replied to we have the same situation with everyone else in the world, although arguably as an independent voice at the WTO we can have a greater opportunity to influence regulation at the international level, where much of the real action is located anyway. 

The "taking back control" piece refers to our ability to make our own bilateral trade arrangements beyond the EU. When the EU negotiates an FTA with a major economy (the three existing FTA's of note being Canada, South Korea and Mexico) it is representing the diverse interests of 28 countries, not the specific strengths of the UK economy - primarily services. 

So not only can we make arrangements more quickly than through the Byzantine EU process (which is highly protectionist) we can focus those arrangements on areas that are most beneficial to our own economy. 

The problem with such a polarized debate is the willingness and maybe instinct of the opppsing sides to willfully mischaracterise the other's objectives or points of view, then argue against a fallacious position that nobody actually holds to strengthen their own argument.

Both sides do it and it shows no sign of changing, at least for now. 

[snowychap]

16 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Are there any British car manufacturers anymore?

[Chindie]

Just now, snowychap said:

On the one hand, there's something very British about doing the same thing you've done for the better part of a century because it works, even if it's twee.

On the other, in light of Brexit, it's perfect that one of the few British car brands is so backwards they still use wood frames.

...And the engines are foreign! Even the headlights on the Aero 8 are from a BMW pretending to be British! Imposters!