The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[PompeyVillan]

33 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Whoa, whoa, woooaaa there. 

By "British beer", I take it you mean "mass produced British lager"? Well, yes, of course it does. 

But why even drink it when we have centuries of brewing tradition, and a colossal range of draught and bottled ales to choose from? 

A serious reason I would not want to live abroad. 

EDIT: I'm not disparaging good continental beers. They are something I drink rarely, but many are available here. Could I get a pint of Bathams in Paris or Oslo? Nope. 

Thank you! I almost dropped my phone then, British beer is fantastic. 

Beer, not larger. 

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

italian beer

that was simply the top item from a single random google entry

I know there are a small number of interesting breweries on Malta, a country with a population of about 300,000. It's not just Cisk Lager once you move away from the holiday resorts.

I'd be quietly confident even the Germans, Poles, Belgians and Czechs might have one or two decent beers between them.

It's truly taking the blinkered piss to try and argue one side has better beer than the other. Which kind of sums up the whole debate really. 

Same with the cheese bollocks truss came out with. 

I can only speak for Poland, not the rest of mainland Europe, but i just don't see English cheeses for sale. Only in specialist shops. The main cheeses are Dutch. 

Same with beer. Plenty of European beers. Not many British. With regards to exports, we really aren't as high thought of as we think we are. 

[chrisp65]

yeah, for clarity, I'm not suggesting ours is better / worse

I'm suggesting there's good stuff everywhere if you care to look beyond Nestle, Fosters, Carling, Starbucks etc etc..

To base your opinion on europe or where to live on what beer, bread or cheese is readily available in Netto and Morrisons is the level of debate that has got us exactly where we are today. Arguing over great british beer like some pub landlord parody.

[StefanAVFC]

I also find it highly amusing that the leave side keep stating the EU have so much more to lose by us leaving. 

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

Taking into consideration that British beer tastes not only like weak piss but that continental Beer is a world better in taste & strength?

Debatable , I think we need a drink off to fully answer the debate though

 

tbh I'm a philistine anyway if it's cold and alcoholic I'll drink it ... unless it's wine then I'll hold it up to the light swirl it around sniff it talk about its great body and hints of gym sock and then sip it for about 6 hours 

[tonyh29]

29 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Same with the cheese bollocks truss came out with. 

I can only speak for Poland, not the rest of mainland Europe, but i just don't see English cheeses for sale. Only in specialist shops. The main cheeses are Dutch. 

Same with beer. Plenty of European beers. Not many British. With regards to exports, we really aren't as high thought of as we think we are. 

The , U.K. Exports 13,292 tonnes of cheese a month ...cheddar exports are up 6% this year and actually up 29% outside of the EU 

Perhaps you shouldn't limit your world view to just Poland ?

 

edit - surprisingly Germany is the biggest exporter of cheese in the world !

Edited December 29, 2016 by tonyh29

[Chindie]

That can't be true. Everyone knows we can't trade outside the EU while we're part of it.

[Awol]

59 minutes ago, Enda said:

If a border is reinstated in Northern Ireland, and the UK reneges on its commitment to the European-based institutions up there, expect bombs. But you'll save money on the EU bananas regulations, innit?

The whole thing is really short-sighted madness IMHO.

Consider the world in 1800, and consider it today. Now look forward 200 years and think what the world will be like in 2200. Do you think it will be more international, more globalised, more "EU-ish"... or do you want it to look more like 1800 with hard borders and countries shaking fists at each other? I'm heavily predicting it will look like more the EU with free movement and breaking down of national barriers, with men from Birmingham marrying babes from Bratislava more regularly than they do today.

In 2200, Brexit will be viewed as a nasty, retrograde step.

So it's a good job that the UK Gov has said there will be no return to a hard border between Ulster and the Republic. 

In commitee David Davis confirmed ongoing conversations between London & Dublin about precisely this and the potential for UK databases and security screening techniques being rolled out at Ireland's own points of entry.

He also said Barnier raised the issue with him and stressed the EU commission is mindful of the situation and will work with Dublin & London to avoid any problems.   

You'd need to wade through it but the above discussion can be found on the link below.

If Republican terrorists still can't resist the temptation to violence they'll find the post 9/11 environment considerably more hazardous to their health.

As for borders coming down and the world becoming more EU-ish, it was a nice idea but the world is accelerating precisely in the opposite direction. If Schengen survives another two years it'll be miraculous.  

[StefanAVFC]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

The , U.K. Exports 13,292 tonnes of cheese a month ...cheddar exports are up 6% this year and actually up 29% outside of the EU 

Perhaps you shouldn't limit your world view to just Poland ?

 

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

Same with the cheese bollocks truss came out with. 

I can only speak for Poland, not the rest of mainland Europe, but i just don't see English cheeses for sale. Only in specialist shops. The main cheeses are Dutch. 

Same with beer. Plenty of European beers. Not many British. With regards to exports, we really aren't as high thought of as we think we are. 

hmm

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

So it's a good job that the UK Gov has said there will be no return to a hard border between Ulster and the Republic. 

So no control of immigration then (of EU citizens into the UK)? They cannot have both a soft border and immigration control, can they?

[Awol]

13 minutes ago, blandy said:

So no control of immigration then (of EU citizens into the UK)? They cannot have both a soft border and immigration control, can they?

Davis' argument on that link is why would people who wanted to become illegal immigrants go to the bother of taking the Dublin-Belfast-Stranraer route, when they could enter UK direct as tourists and stay on? 

I would expect that people who want to work legally in U.K. will be on a visa system (like any non-EU country) and employers would be the ones on the hook for employing illegal immigrants, if caught. 

Installing UK surveillance systems into Irish points of entry is the mechanism to prevent the Republic becoming an infiltration route for terrorists. If you can't harden the internal border you harden the external border instead, without interfering with Ireland's Schengen membership. 

Quite a neat solution really.

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, Awol said:

Installing UK surveillance systems into Irish points of entry is the mechanism to prevent the Republic becoming an infiltration route for terrorists. If you can't harden the internal border you harden the external border instead, without interfering with Ireland's Schengen membership. 

Quite a neat solution really.

I'm not sure I understand the solution - the UK managing Ireland's borders with the rest of the world? 

Why on earth would Ireland agree with that?

I guess you could manage the transfer of people between Northern Ireland and the mainland UK, but I'm guessing there are a number of people in Northern Ireland who would have very strong thoughts on that.

 

[Awol]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not sure I understand the solution - the UK managing Ireland's borders with the rest of the world? 

Why on earth would Ireland agree with that?

I guess you could manage the transfer of people between Northern Ireland and the mainland UK, but I'm guessing there are a number of people in Northern Ireland who would have very strong thoughts on that.

 

No not managing Ireland's borders, but UK technology, techniques (skills transfer) and liaison support and coordination most likely. I'd imagine the ability to reach back into UK databases will be integrated into the Irish system - if that's the way all sides decide to do things. 

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, Awol said:

No not managing Ireland's borders, but UK technology, techniques (skills transfer) and liaison support and coordination most likely. I'd imagine the ability to reach back into UK databases will be integrated into the Irish system - if that's the way all sides decide to do things. 

What's in it for Ireland?

 

[blandy]

10 minutes ago, Awol said:

Davis' argument on that link is why would people who wanted to become illegal immigrants go to the bother of taking the Dublin-Belfast-Stranraer route, when they could enter UK direct as tourists and stay on? 

Which doesn't stand up to a moments scrutiny, does it, when you think about it?

Jonny European can move freely to Ireland, to live and work and then simply walk across a soft border into the UK. The UK has no record of his movement into the country.

or

Jonny European can enter the UK, through immigration control, where the UK has his details from his passport etc. and dates of arrival planned departure, destination etc. if/when he doesn't turn up to leave at the appropriate time, they know he is here, know he shouldn't be and can at least take steps to trace him.

what would you do in his shoes?

[Awol]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

What's in it for Ireland?

 

Continued common travel area with the UK, an open border with Ulster and increased national security capability for their own country. 

Not too bad really. 

[blandy]

18 minutes ago, Awol said:

Installing UK surveillance systems into Irish points of entry is the mechanism to prevent the Republic becoming an infiltration route for terrorists. If you can't harden the internal border you harden the external border instead, without interfering with Ireland's Schengen membership. 

Quite a neat solution really.

Again, not a neat solution in Brexit world. "What! we're giving control of our borders to the EU!" "Brexit means Brexit" "we're paying to put border control systems at Dublin, Shannon, Irish Ports - we should stop paying for the EU to do things. Take back control!" 

[Awol]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

Which doesn't stand up to a moments scrutiny, does it, when you think about it?

Jonny European can move freely to Ireland, to live and work and then simply walk across a soft border into the UK. The UK has no record of his movement into the country.

or

Jonny European can enter the UK, through immigration control, where the UK has his details from his passport etc. and dates of arrival planned departure, destination etc. if/when he doesn't turn up to leave at the appropriate time, they know he is here, know he shouldn't be and can at least take steps to trace him.

what would you do in his shoes?

Yes it does. As noted illegal immigration can't be stopped at borders or entry points as long as people can come in as tourists, but illegally working is a different matter and can be controlled.

If you're not in the country to work then what's the point? 

[Awol]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

Again, not a neat solution in Brexit world. "What! we're giving control of our borders to the EU!" "Brexit means Brexit" "we're paying to put border control systems at Dublin, Shannon, Irish Ports - we should stop paying for the EU to do things. Take back control!" 

No offence but that's just a bit childish. 

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

 

hmm

It was my knee they operated on not my eyes im still young and vibrant and don't need Large print just yet but thanks for your consideration

to clarify you used one country in the world to support a point of view ( seems to be a pattern here , one billionanaire , one country  ) 

I wouldn't be so churlish  as to accuse you of having your head in the sand , so instead I gave some evidence and raised a suggestion in the form of a question that perhaps you ought to extend your world view 

nothing sinister , was just trying to help 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2016 by tonyh29