snowychap Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 MPs' amendments for the Brexit article 50 extension vote Quote On Thursday afternoon, MPs will vote yet again on Brexit, this time on a government motion proposing to ask the EU for a delay to the departure date. There are eight amendments tabled by MPs to the motion. The Speaker, John Bercow, will not select all of them for votes. A. Plaid Cymru amendment This amendment, signed by Plaid’s four MPs, calls for a delay to Brexit until 2021, and a second referendum at the end of this. B. Ruling out a second referendum Signed by more than 100 MPs, mainly Conservative but also Labour’s Caroline Flint and Gareth Snell, this states that “the result of the 2016 EU referendum should be respected and that a second EU referendum would be divisive and expensive, and therefore should not take place”. C. Revoke article 50 Put forward by the SNP’s Angus Brendan MacNeil and Tory remainer Ken Clarke, and signed by about 30 other MPs, this calls for the entire Brexit process to be cancelled. D. Lib Dem second referendum plan Tabled by the the Lib Dems’ 11 MPs, this also calls for a Brexit delay and a second referendum. E. Labour amendment Led by Jeremy Corbyn, this notes the rejection by parliament of May’s Brexit plan, and of no deal, and says the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”. G. The Chope amendment Tabled by Conservative Brexiter and regular malcontent Christopher Chope – and signed only by him – it says Brexit should be delayed for two months “for the specific purpose of replacing the UK negotiating team”. F. SNP/Plaid second referendum plan Yet another extension/second referendum amendment, this also calls for remain to be an option in the referendum, and for the revocation of article 50 to be possible in the interim. H. Cross-party request for second referendum Tabled by ex-Tory Sarah Wollaston, now of the Independent Group, and signed by around 30 MPs, this seeks a delay for a new referendum, which would have remain as an option. Could be selected by Bercow. Not sure if there is any significance in them being listed E, G & F or if it's just typical Grauniad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted March 14, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: I think I’ve spotted the flaw in your plan. The ballot paper would be as long as an Argos receipt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: The ballot paper would be as long as an Argos receipt. At least at Argos, if they aren't able to give you what you ordered, you're supposed to get something as good if not better. Edited March 14, 2019 by snowychap Too many 'at leasts'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 14, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, peterms said: There are many downsides.....Rupert would be angry. I never had you down as a Digger fan. It looks like an upside to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Chope's amendment should only be tabled if everyone gets to shout over it whilst someone pants him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 minute ago, blandy said: I never had you down as a Digger fan. It looks like an upside to me I think it's a poor show to upset elderly gentlemen. I feel this more strongly with each passing year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I am no fan of your man Mercer but that's utterly beyond the pale. No one should have to field that kind of shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 More on amendments: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2019 Excuse my ignorance, could someone summarise the votes that we had yesterday and the results? I had a madly busy day yesterday and didn't follow any of it. I thought we were having a vote on "No Deal" but there seems to have been a couple. The BBC's articles have confused me even more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Excuse my ignorance, could someone summarise the votes that we had yesterday and the results? I had a madly busy day yesterday and didn't follow any of it. I thought we were having a vote on "No Deal" but there seems to have been a couple. The BBC's articles have confused me even more! It wouldn't have been much clearer if you'd watched it live. Gov put forward a motion and there were two amendments selected. One amendment was a free vote for the Tories (it failed) and the other amendment, which changed the motion from what the government wanted to what the House of Commons had agreed last week or week before?) was passed even though Spelman (Tory) tried to withdraw it because she was told that the Gov intended to whip against it. Speaker said it could be moved by any other signatory to it and it was moved by Cooper. This meant that the motion that the Gov had put forward was changed and they therefore had a three line whip (most serious of whips) against their own motion, as amended. They lost this vote in an even bigger way than the earlier one on the amendment as somthing like 12 Ministers (incl. 4 Cabinmet Ministers) and one Gov Whip abstained. Basically, it was a shambles from the Gov's point of view, which was the least surprising bit of the whole night. Oh, and May stood up and croaked (her voice has gone again) some blather that suggested she was going to bring it back again, confirmed by the main motion for today. Edit: That's probably made it even less clear. Sorry. Edited March 14, 2019 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Excuse my ignorance, could someone summarise the votes that we had yesterday and the results? I had a madly busy day yesterday and didn't follow any of it. I thought we were having a vote on "No Deal" but there seems to have been a couple. The BBC's articles have confused me even more! It's a mess. The government motion put forward stated that Parliament declined to leave without deal but accepted that to do so there would have to be a deal and without one we would leave with no deal. Which is true to an extent, but the motion was kinda trying to have it's cake and eat it (fittingly). The motion was amendable and amendments voted on. The first one, put forward by Dame Spelman and Jack Dromey, intended to amend the motion to actually state that the UK would not leave without a deal. The government did not like this amendment and pressured Spelman to withdraw it and said it would whip against the amendment. Spelman gave in but as the amendment had been chosen for voting, if another supporter pushed it it would still be voted on. Yvette Cooper did so. The amendment then narrowly passed. The second amendment was a pointless brexiteer fantasy that got thumpingly rejected. Because the government motion had been amended in a way it didn't like, the government at the last minute changed its stance on allowing MPs a free vote on the amendment, and installed a three line whip on it to vote against it. This basically meant a farcical situation occurred - the government had spent all day telling the House to back it's amendment as No Deal would be bad, but now was forcing the party to vote against what was ostensibly it's own motion, leading to nonsense like May voting against herself in effect. It also put a bunch of ministers in hot water as some had started they would resign rather than vote for anything that made No Deal an official government position, but they were now being forced to effectively do just that, and standard procedure is for ministers defying a three line whip is to resign. There was even a whip a who voted against the thing his job was to impose on everyone. The government lost the motion. But it doesn't have any legislative power, so basically on the legal fact of things nothing changed. The mid of Parliament is also now vicious as they're all pissed off that they are being made to go through votes that aren't actually doing much as the government just carries on regardless, which was repeated for the better part of an hour after the votes ended, and only got worse when the motion for today was announced which basically had the government trying to play the same trick again. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2019 Thanks both. @snowychap was right, that's made it even less clear but appreciate the effort So basically they voted against a delayed Brexit and then a No Deal exit; AND voted against No Deal in any scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Thanks both. @snowychap was right, that's made it even less clear but appreciate the effort So basically they voted against a delayed Brexit and then a No Deal exit; AND voted against No Deal in any scenario? They haven't voted against a delay (i.e. the idea of asking for an A50 extension). That's today's fun and games. Chindie's explanation of yesterday was far better than mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Thanks both. @snowychap was right, that's made it even less clear but appreciate the effort So basically they voted against a delayed Brexit and then a No Deal exit; AND voted against No Deal in any scenario? The government voted AGAINST amending their motion so that it firmly stated we would not leave without a deal, and then because they lost that amendment vote, voted against their own motion as amended. Extension of A50 votes are today. Edited March 14, 2019 by Chindie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted March 14, 2019 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Chindie said: The government voted AGAINST amending their motion so that it firmly stated we would not leave without a deal, and then because they lost that amendment vote, voted against their own motion as amended. I think I understand. I think. Edited March 14, 2019 by Stevo985 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chindie said: The government voted AGAINST amending their motion so that it firmly stated we would not leave without a deal, and then because they lost that amendment vote, voted against their own motion as amended. Extension of A50 votes are today. So if they vote against extending, then they’ve voted against May’s deal, against no deal, and against an extension... ... so where does that leave us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Excuse my ignorance, could someone summarise the votes that we had yesterday and the results? I had a madly busy day yesterday and didn't follow any of it. I thought we were having a vote on "No Deal" but there seems to have been a couple. The BBC's articles have confused me even more! It was pretty chaotic but as far as I could follow it went like this: There was supposed to be a vote to rule out a ‘No Deal’ Brexit on the 29th. It was brought forward by the Tories and May was supporting it. Presumably because it would give her time to use an extension to bring back her deal in a few months with an even harder cliff edge to bargain her deal against. The problem for her was that an amendment had been added to change it to ruling out ‘No Deal’ at any time. Amusingly this amendment was brought forward by a Tory based on last weeks plans but when May realised it would **** up her extension plan she asked the MP to withdraw it. The Tory MP tried to withdraw it but it had been co-signed by a Labour MP who continued to press it. The amendment narrowly passed so when the vote came up to rule out ‘No Deal’ (now amended to be no No Deal under any circumstances) May panicked and tried to force a 3 line whip to vote against it. Unfortunately for her she lost the vote, with the house passing a motion that there should not be a ‘No Deal’ Brexit under any circumstances. No one knows where to go next. Dispite the vote yesterday ‘No Deal’ is still the default do nothing result in 2 weeks time. May will try to push her deal through again next week. The UK will ask for more time to try and work out what it wants to do. I think the EU might actually force the issue by not granting an extension. They have just seen it demonstrated that the UK parliament will not pull the trigger on No Deal so if they hold firm and say no to an extension the UK parliament will be left with two weeks to decide between agreeing May’s deal or revoking A50 (maybe even by agreeing May’s deal but leaving it to be ratified by a referendum between the deal vs no Brexit at all?). Ofcourse the parliament could still fumble its way to agreeing nothing in time and being hit with a No Deal Brexit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: So if they vote against extending, then they’ve voted against May’s deal, against no deal, and against an extension... ... so where does that leave us? Fundamentally nothing will have changed. These votes aren't really doing anything. It is now enshrined in law, because the government is stupid, that we will leave on 29th March, and we've not yet done anything to request A50 is extended/revoked, and none of these votes have done anything to change that. So the basic facts remain the same. Unless a deal is agreed, or an extension granted by the EU, or A50 revoked, we leave on 29th March with No Deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2019 Speaker has chosen amendments H I E and J. Amendment H is basically the second referendum vote. Instructs May to request an extension long enough to put in place a second referendum on the basis of accepting a deal agreed by parliament or remaining in the EU. Amendment I is to allow parliament from next Wednesday to have time to carry out a series of indicative votes to see what the House would actually support as a way to resolve the Brexit issue. Amendment E is the Opposition amendment, which notes the rejection of the agreed deal and No Deal and that an extension should be sought too slow parliament to fund a resolution. Amendment J seeks to prevent May bringing her deal back again for a third time in the basis of Parliamentary precedent preventing multiple votes in unchanged motions. The Brexiteers are fuming the second referendum one has been accepted, while their one insisting the first referendum is respected hasn't been. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chindie said: The Brexiteers are fuming the second referendum one has been accepted, while their one insisting the first referendum is respected hasn't been. The sight of Francois visibly red and foaming with rage has to be made into a gif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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