Neil Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 1 minute ago, VillaCas said: I'm not making excuses for Garde and I'm not a massive supporter either - he may turn out to be a complete disater however where we differ is you expected him to make a difference within 9 games and I didn't. I expect to see some improvement after the transfer window and then a complete overhaul during the close season. I also think that Sherwood needed to go, not because he was not getting the best out of the squad but because he had overseen (together with Fox and Co) the construction of a squad so fundamentally flawed that relegation was a nailed on certainty. Someone new had to come in to completely rebuild. Player for player I don't actually think that the squad is the worst in the PL but taken as a whole they are. We have far too many options in some areas and literally nothing in others. We arn't getting outplayed and turned over 5-0 every week but we just cant score enough goals to win a match because of the crippling deficencies in the squad Whatever we both seem to agree that a change of manager at this time would be counter-productive Fair enough, and yes I did and do expect an improvement after 9 games...I would expect anything other than not a single win. A good experienced, the kind we could not attract, manager would not have made so many naive errors that could have improved on some of our results. This much I'm fairly certain of, and it's an area that Remi has come up short thus far...I hope, and look forward, to a much improved Remi Garde through the season as he gets to grips because leaving it down to chance that he'll magically pull in some squad with our recruitment committee is a recipe for disaster. This is a man that has had 3 years all in of managerial experience, he's only just pipping Sherwood for demonstrating that his transfer policy will be any better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Wainy316 said: Clearly a bunch of inarticulate, drunken knuckle draggers. Can't relate to people that shout and scream obscenities at people like like that. Only sounds like about 5 people anyway. Personally I'd just call it to a group of angry pissed up fans who've traveled really far - and may have traveled to many games to witness this shit. No excuse, but alcohol + emotion doesn't mix well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 The abuse for Garde might not be warranted but he surely can't be surprised? He must have known before he came about our 5 seasons of flirting with relegation, the consistent degredation of our squad and the extreme peril that we go down from the premier league for the first time since it was formed. He was the guy hired to turn things round, he's failed, and Saturday's performance was woeful, Gil's goal apart. It's hardly surprising the fans are angry. It's mostly not his fault but if he hadn't worked out before he came that this was a risk, he was badly adrift in his judgment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 If you are going to protest then you protest and can't stop because shouting nasty words at people isn't nice. If you feel that then you may as well forget any protest. Yes Lerner deserves the message but he has to receive it by any and all means. That by us, by the media and by his employees . Only al three will make it uncomfortable for him. If you accept peaceful protest as a legitimate means then you have to accept the actions as per that video. Now is not the time for faint hearts 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, Richard said: If you are going to protest then you protest and can't stop because shouting nasty words at people isn't nice. If you feel that then you may as well forget any protest. ... If you accept peaceful protest as a legitimate means then you have to accept the actions as per that video. Now is not the time for faint hearts QFUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didiersix Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 6 minutes ago, Richard said: If you are going to protest then you protest and can't stop because shouting nasty words at people isn't nice. If you feel that then you may as well forget any protest. Yes Lerner deserves the message but he has to receive it by any and all means. That by us, by the media and by his employees . Only al three will make it uncomfortable for him. If you accept peaceful protest as a legitimate means then you have to accept the actions as per that video. Now is not the time for faint hearts Well said. The heat needs to be well and truly turned up. There are too many operating in a comfort zone both on and off the pitch from what I can see. Richard is right - fans have been so patient for so long it has given Lerner an easy ride. Now that the media are starting to get the idea (loved Joey Barton calling our owner a "muppet" by the way) fans need to keep reinforcing the message any which way they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Whilst I agree with protests within reason what I don't agree with is the personal and aggressive way they directed their frustrastion regardless of how they feel. For a start off who isn't angry, frustrated and just generally pissed off at the situation. I don't see why someone like Garde who has been here for 9 games deserves that. After all the form was shit long before he arrived and although he hasn't managed to turn things around up to now it's not something he created. If people want to protest then sing and shout to those making the real decisions not some bloke who has been here 5 mins and trying to sort out the mess! Fox is there Saturdays even if Lerner isn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 That's embarrassing and pathetic but not surprising as the world is full of morons. I can understand fans being pissed off about the situation the club is in but that type of shit is completely counter productive, protest against the owner and boo bad performances but wtf is slinging insults at the players going to achieve, plebs... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2016 5 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I know this is VT so I shouldn't be surprised but this is, without doubt, the most revisionist post I've ever read on here. We drew 6 of our first 7 games. Everybody hates McLeish. So Zatman likes him. That's how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2016 1 hour ago, av1 said: Uploaded to YouTube. That is so embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Garde isn't doing himself any favours by persisting with Lescot. Also, he needs to start Traore. Why do people think he will bring in his own players? According to reports that's not how it works. The transfer committee royally fecked us up and need to take their fair share of stick for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 that video is embarrassing more than anything. Would even call it small time if it was another clubs fans. What makes Gil so special he gets a clap. I assume it was that guy who wanted him here instead of Sherwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2016 1 minute ago, villarocker said: Garde isn't doing himself any favours by persisting with Lescot. Also, he needs to start Traore. Why do people think he will bring in his own players? According to reports that's not how it works. The transfer committee royally fecked us up and need to take their fair share of stick for it. The so called transfer committee includes (and included) the manager. It's no different to most other clubs. It's been blown wildly out of proportion by the media and fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I'm sure Sherwood wanted lots of unknown players from the French league that hardly spoke English. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 The problem with transfer committees for me is we shouldnt have one unless its people that know the game if not let the manager run that department. If transfer committee was manager, scout and say 2 ex-players or managers then I would accept it. Not the secretary, chief executive and scout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: The so called transfer committee includes (and included) the manager. It's no different to most other clubs. It's been blown wildly out of proportion by the media and fans. I think the so called "transfer committees" are supposed to get the "value for money" or fulfill requirements within what the club will financially allow. The biggest problem, I believe, is at a club like ours the players that are allowed to be brought in are not exactly what the manager hopes for. Much has been said by the top, about how the manager always has to rubber stamp every transfer in. But when you start saying "I'd like this guy" and each answer is "well he's a bit too much to buy / demands too many wages - how about this guy, he's been identified to have the attributes" I think head/bang/brickwall probably comes into play and you end up with a load of what you don't really want. That's the jist of what I pick up from everything that is said, and really why such a thing as a transfer committee even exists. This is why I question people who think that Remi is just going to go out with a shopping list and get all the players he wants, nah...committee won't allow it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 5, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2016 Just now, Neil said: I think the so called "transfer committees" are supposed to get the "value for money" or fulfill requirements within what the club will financially allow. The biggest problem, I believe, is at a club like ours the players that are allowed to be brought in are not exactly what the manager hopes for. Much has been said by the top, about how the manager always has to rubber stamp every transfer in. But when you start saying "I'd like this guy" and each answer is "well he's a bit too much to buy / demands too many wages - how about this guy, he's been identified to have the attributes" I think head/bang/brickwall probably comes into play and you end up with a load of what you don't really want. That's the jist of what I pick up from everything that is said, and really why such a thing as a transfer committee even exists. This is why I question people who think that Remi is just going to go out with a shopping list and get all the players he wants, nah...committee won't allow it. But you've made all that up. There's no evidence to that being how it works. The manager is given players by scouts and together they choose the players they want. That is surely how it happens everywhere, unless you think the manager does all the scouting himself at other clubs? There's no evidence that, for example, Sherwood said "I want Charlie Austin" and was told "nah, you can have Gestede instead". If it wasn't for a newspaper report saying that these weren't Sherwood's players, a report that had no quotes or anything, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Kingman said: Really? I think ive agreed with all your posts of late Mike but not this one. Those bastards want stoning not slagging off! Dont you see the irony in your post? We are still able to voice an opinion , stoning to death is still against the law. Its not a pretty video but its better than shia law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Don't mind that video at all. Would I do it. Probably not but those players are an absolute **** disgrace and I don't feel for them one bit. They ought to be ashamed of themselves really. Not feeling sad as Cissokho suggests. Not hurting. Should be embarrassed and ashamed. They are absolutely pathetic and i've no problem with them being told that. Counteractive? Well **** me. It certainly won't make things worse. Harsh on garde after 8 games but tbh, he's not covering himself in glory. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: But you've made all that up. There's no evidence to that being how it works. The manager is given players by scouts and together they choose the players they want. That is surely how it happens everywhere, unless you think the manager does all the scouting himself at other clubs? There's no evidence that, for example, Sherwood said "I want Charlie Austin" and was told "nah, you can have Gestede instead". If it wasn't for a newspaper report saying that these weren't Sherwood's players, a report that had no quotes or anything, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I have made it up, because it's really what I think (I believe the clue was in the prepended text "I think"...too subtle?)...and you have no evidence to the contrary either. I read a high expectation that Garde can only be judged after getting all his own people in, who are all his own people? Probably all out of our price range, and actually what will be "his people" will be those identified by a committee within our price range. Where other comittees get to demonstrate a Harrods catalog of players to choose from, ours is stuck in the local Bargain pages. I very much doubt they're going to be what he "really wants" but what he has to make do with... P.S. No idea why you cite Sherwood, what has he got to do with it? Simple logic for me as to question why a transfer committee is setup for a football club on a shoe string budget, nothing to do with some fabricated newspaper story you mention - I thikn you made that up. Edited January 5, 2016 by Neil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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