blandy Posted June 21, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2022 27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I might be wrong but as I understand it there has been no willingness to come to the table and negotiate from the other parties. If there had then there wouldn't be a strike That bit is wrong. They've been talking for a good while, and nearly (according to the Company bods) agreed, but he said the Union wouldn't accept the working practice changes the Co. wanted - obs that's just one side's take. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 21, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2022 43 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Nurses working conditions are much worse ans they get paid significantly less Dem, the Train Drivers aren't on strike. Nurses probably get paid significantly more than most of the people who are on strike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StefanAVFC Posted June 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2022 When nurses go on strike it’ll be ‘why aren’t teachers going on strike?’ And when teachers go on strike it’ll be ‘why aren’t cleaners going on strike?’ people falling for the shit that it’s anyone other than the Tories’ fault are part of the problem too. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 21, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, blandy said: That bit is wrong. They've been talking for a good while, and nearly (according to the Company bods) agreed, but he said the Union wouldn't accept the working practice changes the Co. wanted - obs that's just one side's take. Fair enough, I'm not exactly up to date on the issue to be honest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, bickster said: Dem, the Train Drivers aren't on strike. Nurses probably get paid significantly more than most of the people who are on strike Yeah thats something im actually interested in knowing although its not just pay they are striking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted June 21, 2022 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2022 Just now, Demitri_C said: Yeah thats something im actually interested in knowing although its not just pay they are striking about Yes Dem, as a train user, you should also know they are striking about Public Safety and what halving the budget (and therefore Staff) will do to all the rail safety checks. Last time a government did this incidents of multiple fatalities on the railways had a huge spike They are striking for your safety too 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 1 hour ago, bickster said: Yes Dem, as a train user, you should also know they are striking about Public Safety and what halving the budget (and therefore Staff) will do to all the rail safety checks. Last time a government did this incidents of multiple fatalities on the railways had a huge spike They are striking for your safety tooadc The part i was referring to what the pay of them in comparison to a band 3 nurse. I know that its not just pay but as i said earlier i would like them to make public what compromise/offer was made to try stop the strike if a decent offer was made then i thibk its justified to be pissed off at them. But i doubt we will ever know Again i stress they didnt need to go this severe ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 21, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Again i stress they didnt need to go this severe ! See the thing is, people keep telling you because it's true, strikes that aren't severe don't work. It completely misses the point 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Nurses working conditions are much worse ans they get paid significantly less. In their case it would be more understandable for those reasons as they tend to care about their patients not just bring most places to their knees Firstly, there are people making millions in this country, don’t let the people earning £30,000 be your enemy when inflation is running at 10% You are being played by people far far richer than you will ever be. You are being played by land owners and people with perfectly legal offshore funds and perfectly legal complicated tax arrangements. Secondly, why do you imagine the nurses that don’t strike, have worse pay and conditions than people that do strike? Can you see any possible link there? If you choose a profession or a vocation where your pay is decided by others, and you are disinclined to take action for better pay… guess what happens? Some people leave, and some people stay in increasingly poor working conditions and moan that other people earn more than them. Perhaps, just perhaps, if NHS staff were prepared to take some industrial action we would ALL have a better NHS. Imagine 3 days of NHS industrial action to create a better NHS where we don’t wait 4 years for an operation. If 3 days of striking lead to the waiting list reducing a year, would that be a good thing, or a bad thing? It would of course, inconvenience some people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I know that its not just pay but as i said earlier i would like them to make public what compromise/offer was made to try stop the strike if a decent offer was made then i thibk its justified to be pissed off at them. But i doubt we will ever know From what I've read, they've asking for 7% and a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies, while accepting that longer hours will be needed. They rejected an offer of 2%, with a potential extra 1% funded by compulsory redundancies. Obviously this is ust reported by anonymous sources rather than publicly disclosed info though When the opening line of negotiation was "a significant real terms wage cut, longer hours, and some of you are getting laid off because of arbitrary cuts dictated by the government", I can see why it's come to this. Edited June 21, 2022 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 I guess if they are asking for 7% they may settle for 5% or 6%. Against a backdrop of 9-11% inflation it doesn’t seem greedy. Quite the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 But if all these £30k employees achieve above average pay rises, then because of the vast number of them, in comparison to the mega rich, then inflation will inevitably rise, interest rates will rise, and mortgages will rise, and house prices will go down. So its not a simple class war situation. The average joe will lose out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 The link of wages to cost increases isn't a 1:1 relationship - i.e., if everyone's wages go up by 5%, all prices don't go up by 5% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said: But if all these £30k employees achieve above average pay rises, then because of the vast number of them, in comparison to the mega rich, then inflation will inevitably rise, interest rates will rise, and mortgages will rise, and house prices will go down. So its not a simple class war situation. The average joe will lose out That might be the weirdest most masochistic ill informed self loathing take on this situation I’ve seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Just now, Davkaus said: The link of wages to cost increases isn't a 1:1 relationship - i.e., if everyone's wages go up by 5%, all prices don't go up by 5% Unless it’s a prostitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Genie said: Unless it’s a prostitute. Well the thing is, her wages are only one of the expenses. Say you have one of pimp Tony's top bitches, Lisa, for example, I'm talking from the double diamond category, £500 per hour (extra for some of the kinky shit). She doesn't get all of that, obviously, on top of her wages, there are consumable costs (condoms, lube, latex horse masks), commercial property rent, Tony's profit margin (pimp's gotta make a living, you feel me?), not to mention national insurance contributions, pension contributions, and funding for continuous prostitution development. Now, Tony is a responsible employer, familiar with the economic struggles of his bitches, so wants to put her wages up, but his staffing overheads might only come to, what, 20, maybe 30% of the cost to the end client. Not all of those expenses go up by 5% because Lisa gets a 5% payrise. And that's without getting into the discussion about whether prostitute demand is elastic or inelastic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Well the thing is, her wages are only one of the expenses. Say you have one of pimp Tony's top bitches, Lisa, for example, I'm talking from the double diamond category, £500 per hour (extra for some of the kinky shit). She doesn't get all of that, obviously, on top of her wages, there are consumable costs (condoms, lube, latex horse masks), commercial property rent, Tony's profit margin (pimp's gotta make a living, you feel me?), not to mention national insurance contributions, pension contributions, and funding for continuous prostitution development. Now, Tony is a responsible employer, familiar with the economic struggles of his bitches, so wants to put her wages up, but his staffing overheads might only come to, what, 20, maybe 30% of the cost to the end client. Not all of those expenses go up by 5% because Lisa gets a 5% payrise. And that's without getting into the discussion about whether prostitute demand is elastic or inelastic. My example was based on a sole trader, £10 for a BJ next to the bins at the back of Argos. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Genie said: My example was based on a sole trader, £10 for a BJ next to the bins at the back of Argos. Well, in that case I can't fault the economics, but I'd get yourself checked out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 49 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: See the thing is, people keep telling you because it's true, strikes that aren't severe don't work. It completely misses the point I get that people keep telling me this however i dont agree with it. i think a balance if inbetween would be more helpful. The thing is i don't think its going to have as much impact as ive stressed before because alot of people work remotely. Ita having a bigger impact on nhs people, small businesses that really cant afford this. My last point on this subject as we wont all agree on this subject i just hope in future all parties can compromise better to prevent this kind of shit in future as it causes nothing but misery. But im not optimistic with a government led by boris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, Genie said: My example was based on a sole trader, £10 for a BJ next to the bins at the back of Argos. Honestly surprised anything is going up there given the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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