Uber

[bickster]

You get an Uber but you've been surged? Why is that. The surge is meant to be because demand is high… yet you got a cab straight away so clearly supply isn't outstripping demand is it?

If supply is outstripping demand, surge pricing isn't working: the goal is to keep demand sufficiently below supply in order to allow the car to come straight away.

Uber in Liverpool has roughly 50 drivers, thats 50 drivers to cover the entire county of Merseyside 24 hours a day. They currently cannot ever cover demand so surging is a. utterly pointless and b. just a rip off as it can never do what it supposedly aims to do, they could make the surge x9 and they'd never cover the demand. They are currently declaring war on our company, and yes their Twitter trolls may actually have used that phrase. 50 drivers most of whom we've actually sacked at one stage or other of their career vs 2200 in our company and we're actually cheaper than them in most instances. The only reason they have drivers is because of the incentives. Surge pricing and economic theory is nonsense. Its just a way of chiseling money out of people. When you can't get more drivers to come out because there are no more to come out, how can surge pricing help that? It can't

You've genuinely gone off the deep end bicks.

First, it's "demand is clearly not outstripping supply, because you get a car straight away".  Then it's "the supply can never cover the demand."  Which is the case?

Depends on the timing doesn't it. There are times when you are in the city centre when there at at least 8 Ubers available. You'll never see more than 8, you'll see one disappear and another miraculously replace it elsewhere instantly. Its still surging at this point even though approx 20% of its entire fleet is empty in the city centre, then there are times when there are none (peak hours Sat Evening) and its surging more even though there are no more Ubers left to go to work, they are all out. The surge at those times cannot encourage more drivers to work because there are no more drivers.

[bickster]

America however is different to the UK. The USA only has a one tier Taxi system. Here in the UK we already have a two tier system Hackney vs Private Hire, Uber fall into the latter. The arguments are different in the US to here

 

Nearly every large US city makes a distinction between Taxi and Livery (though they're typically regulated by the same authorities). Taxicabs are allowed to pick up street hails, Livery vehicles (typically "black cars") aren't.

Ah yes but your livery vehicles would come under the luxury bracket would they not? not the case here. The PH industry #ubered the traditional taxi trade many decades ago since the introduction of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act of 1976. So here Uber are trying to do a job that has already been done. 

If anything, the black cars work the poorer areas of cities.  In New York (apart from airport trips), the taxis generally won't go outside of Manhattan (or even that far north of roughly 110th Street in Manhattan): partly because of pedestrian density making it easier to get street hails, and also because they're more likely to get a good tip (that the driver typically has to pay the owner of the medallion (or the bank they borrowed from to finance a medallion) anywhere from $100 to $200 per 12-hour shift reinforces this); related to this is the general tendency of taxi drivers in the US to only let people who look poor (e.g. black) ride as a last resort.  In the Outer Boroughs (and Harlem), if you need a ride, you call a black car (or Uber).  Complicating things a little is that the black cars will pick up street hails in the neighborhoods where the taxis don't generally go, with the police and Taxi and Limousine Commission looking the other way.

There is the black Town Car (whatever will they do when the last of the Town Cars gives up the ghost?) luxury end of the livery business as well, generally only doing business alongside the taxis

America is still an entirely different case to the UK, those extortionate taxi medallions really are part of the problem. As I said we beat the crap out of that stuff here over the last 40 years. In Liverpool the Hackney Carriages haven't had a rate rise in I think its the last seven years and they are still more expensive but not by much. A PH licence for the year costs approx £120 a year for car and £100 a year for driver. Less than a Saturday night profit.

[Stevo985]

All this talk about surging as if it's the norm.

I've seen surge pricing once. And that's when I got a cab from villa park. They charged 1.5x the fare after a villa vs blues game on a tuesday night at 10pm from a football ground. I thought that was fair enough. Plus it told me this before I booked the car with a fare estimate so I had the choice not to use Uber if I didn't want to pay surge pricing.

I've used the service dozens of times now, including peak times in and out of birmingham, to and from stations and airports, early morning, middle of the night. Weekends in Dublin and London.

Not once have I seen surge pricing apart from that time at VP.

[Davkaus]

They just started in Nottingham a couple of days ago.

From the train station to my house costs about £13 in a black cab, usually about a tenner in a private hire.

£6 using Uber. 

[bickster]

They just started in Nottingham a couple of days ago.

From the train station to my house costs about £13 in a black cab, usually about a tenner in a private hire.

£6 using Uber. 

How far is that journey approximately?

[Davkaus]

Just over 3 miles. 

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Got an Uber car last night, but I didn't like the route the driver took. I disputed it today, the customer service team reviewed the route, and I have been given a refund for part of the fare. Another benefit of using the service. 

[bickster]

Got an Uber car last night, but I didn't like the route the driver took. I disputed it today, the customer service team reviewed the route, and I have been given a refund for part of the fare. Another benefit of using the service. 

Most cab firms would do that

EDIT: did you get an actual refund or was it in Uber credits?

Edited November 8, 2015 by bickster

[Stevo985]

Just over 3 miles. 

Similar to the airport to my house.

4 miles.£15 last time I got a black cab.

£7 in an Uber.

Black cabs are absolute shite.

[bickster]

Just over 3 miles. 

Similar to the airport to my house.

4 miles.£15 last time I got a black cab.

£7 in an Uber.

Black cabs are absolute shite.

That bit I agree with

[bickster]

One bloke in Manchester registered with Uber last Friday, never actually ordered any cars but by Sunday he was £300 out of pocket from cars ordered in Canada.

Uber are either incapable or refuse to address this hacking problem

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Got an Uber car last night, but I didn't like the route the driver took. I disputed it today, the customer service team reviewed the route, and I have been given a refund for part of the fare. Another benefit of using the service. 

Most cab firms would do that

EDIT: did you get an actual refund or was it in Uber credits?

 

It was refunded back to the payment card although Uber credits would have been fine since I use them a lot.

How does a normal cab firm review the route, just out of interest? 

 

 

[bickster]

Got an Uber car last night, but I didn't like the route the driver took. I disputed it today, the customer service team reviewed the route, and I have been given a refund for part of the fare. Another benefit of using the service. 

Most cab firms would do that

EDIT: did you get an actual refund or was it in Uber credits?

 

It was refunded back to the payment card although Uber credits would have been fine since I use them a lot.

How does a normal cab firm review the route, just out of interest? 

 

 

GPS tracking, our cars are tracked every 15 seconds, most modern taxi systems are perfectly capable of doing this. 

How much out was the journey? how long was the journey?

Edited November 9, 2015 by bickster

[chrisp65]

Not strictly related to 'Uber', but I took a black cab in London on the weekend.

The driver clearly took a punt that because it was Saturday and I had family with me in central London I was a 'tourist'. Which I was on that particular day. He didn't take the piss massively, but when the fare got to £20 and we were still a street away, I got him to stop and pointed out to him it normally cost me £15 for the journey.

We agreed to split the difference on £17.50, and I sat there and waited for my change. Not sure how he squares that with his meter, I presume he's just had to put £2.50 in from his own pocket if he wasn't 100% self employed.

It was just one of those moments where I was in the mood to make a stand, not just let it go for a quiet life. The nipper was mortified with embarrassment at her big bad dad. 

[bickster]

All London Black Cabs are self employed. In fact 99% of cab drivers country wide are self employed.

Private Hire Companies work on an agency basis. The drivers are their clients. The drivers pay a fee to be provided with work

Pretty much the same with Black Cabs except they can do street work, so the agencies they work for supply less work and their fees are lower as there is no compulsion to take any of their work

[bickster]

Out of interest, which firm is yours? PM if you don't want to go public. I haven't used Uber on principle but have had various issues with a couple of the firms around here recently and am looking for a reliable one.

Delta

[MrDuck]

[rjw63]

We used Uber in London a couple of months back, it took about 40 minutes to cover the 7 or 8 mile journey but only came out at £12.75 (and we had a ten quid voucher).

So I thought I'd use them to get to Symphony Hall on Friday as I had another ten quid referral to use - quelle surpreeeeze no Uber available in B37. Had to get a local firm and it came to almost twenty **** quid from right next to the NEC to Broad Street.

After the gig Uber was easily available, without my discount the cost was £13.74. Bit of a difference.

[choffer]

52 minutes ago, rjw63 said:

it came to almost twenty **** quid from right next to the NEC to Broad Street

There are some things I miss about Birmingham. Oddly, taxi fares is one of them.

Late home the other night, I missed the last bus from the train station. 4 minutes in a cab to get home and it cost me £18.

[Stevo985]

Private firms in Birmingham are reasonable.

Black cabs are an absolute **** rip off. Almost double the cost of someone like A2B.