Stevo985 Posted September 23, 2017 Author VT Supporter Share Posted September 23, 2017 Black cabs are an absolute joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: I agree with you, but I feel like an administration hell-bent on deregulating the labour market somehow had other reasons for wanting this to happen. It's because the TFL is an extremely powerful lobby. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: It's because the TFL is an extremely powerful lobby. Damn straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Black cabs are an absolute joke. Yes they are. Once I got one from Blackfriars to Euston, cost me £20, that's £20 for just over 2 miles. Anyway, when I got off to Euston I informed the driver that I'm going to pay by card, as I had no cash on me. He goes off on a massive rant about how his card machine isn't working properly, he got very aggressive. So we tried to do the card transaction twice and it didn't work. He wanted to drive me to a cash point instead. I told him I had a train to catch in 20 minutes and I didn't have time for it and that it was his problem that his card machine wasn't working. After a bit of a stand off I just walked off, got the ride for free, he was irate, very satisfying tbh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Yes they are. Once I got one from Blackfriars to Euston, cost me £20, that's £20 for just over 2 miles. Anyway, when I got off to Euston I informed the driver that I'm going to pay by card, as I had no cash on me. He goes off on a massive rant about how his card machine isn't working properly, he got very aggressive. So we tried to do the card transaction twice and it didn't work. He wanted to drive me to a cash point instead. I told him I had a train to catch in 20 minutes and I didn't have time for it and that it was his problem that his card machine wasn't working. After a bit of a stand off I just walked off, got the ride for free, he was irate, very satisfying tbh. I had a tosser cab driver pick me up from airport few weeks ago. Not only was he late and not picking up the phone on way home journey was £63 went to give him £70 and he says sorry to change and he wanted to keep £7 for himself! Was really disgusted. At least with uber the fee is agreed and paid before you have left. If the service wasnt so shit with most normal cabs/black cabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2017 Some of you need to wake up. Uber is only cheap because it is subsidising the fares it charges to the tune of billions from private equity. The aim is to smash the traditional taxi monopoly (which doesn’t exist in the U.K. anyway) and replace it with... The Uber Taxi Monopoly. Once It achieves that aim... It will no longer be cheap. Why do you get cheap taxis, straight away? Because Uber oversupplies the market and only pays drivers for the work done. Once Uber has a dominant position (like in London) you people who use Uber, are paying people less than the minimum wage. So no more complaining about governments and corporations not paying people the correct amount and needing to raise the minimum wage, you lot are up to it too. when Uber feels like, it puts the prices up and you pay through the nose, much more expensive than any other form of taxi. Uber will tell you this is an attempt to get more Taxis into an area because demand is outstripping supply. This is bullshit, this is no algorithm, this is human interaction putting the price up. If demand was outstripping supply then there wouldn’t be any cars available but the app will show you 8 cars available, sat around waiting for work... where’s this outstripping? It’s a lie, they surge because they think they can get away with it None of those are reasons to remove their licence from anywhere, they are just reasons why your being taken advantage of by the corporation and you yourselves are taking advantage of the poor idiots that choose to work for them. Having said all that, some of the bull in the media over the last day is hilarious as are the reasons for licence removal. There will not be 40,000 unemployed Uber drivers if the licence is revoked, there will be 40,000 dickheads who chose to work that way that can now go and work for any other TfL licensed operator, there's hundreds of them. They are badged and are qualified, nothing stopping them working for a different company. Some already do. The idea that a taxi company (because despite what Uber claim, that’s what they are) should be responsible for reporting serious sexual assaults to the police is nonsensical. The only person that can report this is the victim. The only way a taxi company can know about it is if the victim reports it to the taxi company and not the police. Taxi companies cannot and should not be able to investigate such matters, that is 5e responsibility f law enforcement and quite rightly. The claim from Uber that in London the drivers have the same DBS as Black Cab Drivers, is a lie, they don’t, Uber used a now discredited agency to put most of their drivers through for DBS checks. Those of you that use Uber should have a hard look at yourself, look into what the drivers earn and decide are you the sort of person that pays below the minimum wage? If you are, carry on using slave cabs, if you aren't use a company with a more driver friendly model (that’s most of the traditional PH market), walk or get public transport. If people stopped using Uber, the idiots that work for them would be forced to improve their lives by working at a different company, one that will probably charge them a weekly fee, not take 25% of their gross earnings, charge the customer a slightly higher fare, pay their due taxes and be pretty straight up with compliance and they way the6 operate. Also one of the greatest lies is that Uber are great innovators, that the app is revolutionary, it most certainly isn't, it’s a simple piece of crap that gets you a vehicle that is closest too you, it’s an a to b measurement. That’s is the simplest and unfairness form of taxi dispatch in the world (And this is a field I am an expert in). And don’t start me on the routes google maps comes up with for he cab.... you're being charged extra for taking the long route most of the time but because an app tells him the way to go It must be right ... nonsense I'll stop ranting now... maybe 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 15 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: At least with uber the fee is agreed and paid before you have left. Yep, often they agree the long route price and pay the driver the short route price (court case pending in the states on that one) Also what happens when you get to the end of the journey and decide you need to go on. You have to book another one, except you do It in the cab, so the cab you are in will get the job because he's closest to you, you then get charged for a second journey which includes a second first mile fee, making it more expensive than their advertised rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 22/09/2017 at 18:37, TrentVilla said: You mean themselves? They aren’t self employed. They are workers entitled to employment benefits. Their appeal that they will surely lose is due next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 22/09/2017 at 12:22, Demitri_C said: I was under the impression from Sadiq Khan that they wont be able to operate in London anymore if their appeal is rejected? The appeal process will last at least three years minimum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 22/09/2017 at 12:37, tonyh29 said: guess it's back to going home in unlicensed mini cabs after a late night in London now .. much safer for people than an app that uses licensed drivers and no cash required Why would you use an unlicensed one when there’s thousands of licensed ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 22/09/2017 at 12:40, NurembergVillan said: Another step closer to a Rees-Mogg utopia, a better time, a simpler time. People who can't afford a Hackney carriage should stay at home. Or put in an extra shift down the asbestos mine so they can earn a few extra farthings towards giving themselves a leg up. Oh right people that aren’t that well off should be able to pay below the minimum wage by that logic... because that is what you just said in real terms Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 22/09/2017 at 12:59, Dr_Pangloss said: I have profound problems with the Uber business model and their treatment of employees (I'd extend this to the 'gig economy' writ-large) however this is on net a bad thing. What this does is serve to maintain the TFL monopoly allowing them to continue to set extortionate rates for black cabs. Personally, I've had fares that have amounted to £10 per mile in the past, just outrageous. That said, you can use other firms such as Hailo and Kabbee, who will step in and take Uber's market share, whilst other players will come on the scene, Taxify for example will sort itself out and become operable again. You have this a lot wrong. TfL have bent over backwards for Uber and have only gone down this route because their position has become somewhat indefensible. The problem with black cab fares could be solved overnight and with one simple change to the law. What makes black cab rates extortionate is a factor of two things. Firstly councils have a responsibility in law to limit the amount of Hackney Carriages (partly for practical reasons, space on stands etc) and secondly that Hackney Carriage plates carry a black market value due to the fact they are transferable. It is this black market transfer value of the plate that forces high prices as driver have to recover their investment costs or pay the cab barons a high rental fee 9n their cab for the exact same reason. Remove the transferability of he vehicle plate, problem solved overnight.Make it that plates should be surrendered and the next on the waiting list gets the plate and that HUGE cost is gone Then later on limit the amount of cab plates you can own to... ONE. Cab Barons gone overnight... that one needs an interim period though 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 22/09/2017 at 13:28, choffer said: I'd always presumed that Uber was yet another company abusing the labour laws but having been forced to use them a few times in the recent past, I've always been keen to find out what their drivers think. I don't think I've met one yet that didn't love being an Uber driver. Many of them drive to supplement their income and are glad of the extra money. The last one I took was driven by a guy who was driving to help him through medical school. Actually, I'm not really sure what my thoughts are on the Uber model - I still think it's something slightly exploitative but I'm prepared to put my objections on that score to one side for the sake of convenience. In terms of the licence loss, it's still a new thing though and all new things take time to settle down. I'm sure there can be an argument made that Uber aren't listening to criticism and changing their policies quickly enough but to stifle such an obviously popular service in such a way doesn't seem to be a good thing. I’ve never met an Uber driver that subsequently changed companies and went back and as I meet these on a daily basis due to the training I do in work. Also think about this, the driver will never slag the company off to a passenger, he thinks you like the company and upsetting you might make you press 4 stars instead of 5 and if his rating slips below 4.6 he'll be sacked. So that’s why you never hear the drivers slate the company to passengers. Go on twitter and see what they say on anonymised accounts and you'll see a whole different opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 22/09/2017 at 14:44, tonyh29 said: I'll be honest and say I've not read up on the subject , but I've yet to have a conversation with an Uber driver who doesn't like the arrangement they have with Uber ... the guys (and girls) I've spoken to said they get the fee from a journey and Uber takes a % as their cut , but that Uber offer them help and support for their tax returns , expenses and what not I refer you to my ratings post above. Taxi drivers are born liars, especially if they think there’s money in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, bickster said: They aren’t self employed. They are workers entitled to employment benefits. Their appeal that they will surely lose is due next week No I know, they aren't but I was trying to avoid the complexity of their status while making my more basic point that they aren't employees of Uber in response to the point by Limpid that they were happy with their employers. As you say they aren't self employed, they aren't employed they are workers. Which is why should Uber lose their appeal, which I think it extremely likely, those workers will have no right to redundancy payment, there will be no obligation to consult, no claims for unfair dismissal... I wouldn't dare get into a debate with you on Uber's practises or this industry as I appreciate you have a level of knowledge and insight way in excess of mine. But employment status, rights and the area around worker/employee is very much my area of knowledge and it frustrates me at times how little some people understand the differences and natures of employment (not you I might add). There seems to be a wide spread misconception that because Uber lost the case last year (which they are also appealing) that they must treat drivers as employees, that they are in fact employees. However this was in regards to minimum wage and holiday pay, because the drivers aren't self employed but neither are they employed and therefore don't enjoy the protected status of being such. As it happens, I don't particularly take any issue with people being engaged on a worker basis, it has a place in a modern dynamic labour force and economy so long as there are also employment options. The 'worker' model can be good for both the company that engages the worker and the worker themselves. What I do have an issue with is Uber as a company, its various business practices which are unethical and borderline illegal in some instances and the quite repulsive way I think it operates to then see them heralded as being some sort of champion of the little guy frankly is disturbing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, bickster said: You have this a lot wrong. TfL have bent over backwards for Uber and have only gone down this route because their position has become somewhat indefensible. The problem with black cab fares could be solved overnight and with one simple change to the law. What makes black cab rates extortionate is a factor of two things. Firstly councils have a responsibility in law to limit the amount of Hackney Carriages (partly for practical reasons, space on stands etc) and secondly that Hackney Carriage plates carry a black market value due to the fact they are transferable. It is this black market transfer value of the plate that forces high prices as driver have to recover their investment costs or pay the cab barons a high rental fee 9n their cab for the exact same reason. Remove the transferability of he vehicle plate, problem solved overnight.Make it that plates should be surrendered and the next on the waiting list gets the plate and that HUGE cost is gone Having spoken to a friend who is a former driver in Liverpool I can confirm the above, absolutely bang on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Bicks a huge uber fan then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 Just now, Demitri_C said: Bicks a huge uber fan then Utterly contemptible company on many many levels 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 minute ago, bickster said: Utterly contemptible company on many many levels To be honest if other companies whether they are black cabs or whoever had a app service where I could see exactly where the driver is I would use them. I find that very handy. maybe there is I haven't really looked into it. From a service point of view uber has been good for me but I understand the hatred for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: To be honest if other companies whether they are black cabs or whoever had a app service where I could see exactly where the driver is I would use them. I find that very handy. I think I've found a way to deal with this issue... I have a look around and see if I can see a black cab, if I can I know where exactly where the driver is (usually in the front or talking to his mate in the one behind), if that fails I call a taxi firm and they tell me how long it will be. Simples. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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