Seat68 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 8 hours ago, Wainy316 said: For those talking about competitors 'Lyft' are pretty widespread in the States and I've heard rumblings about them coming here. Almost every Uber I used in LA and SF had a Lyft sticker also. I had both apps when I was over there, I worked on the premise that if an uber wasn't available I would get a Lyft, never had to use it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Seat68 said: I had both apps when I was over there, I worked on the premise that if an uber wasn't available I would get a Lyft, never had to use it though. I used one at the end of the trip just to give it a try. It was more or less exactly the same to use. Not sure about their ethical practices though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Tricky one isn't it, I don't know much about taxi's, don't use them myself. But Uber appear to be from the scum end of the business model spectrum. But, they are cheaper. So, I guess as long as people don't then complain everything appears to be turning to shit, as long as they happily accept, the world has turned to shit but I saved £3. Then everything's cool. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, chrisp65 said: Tricky one isn't it, I don't know much about taxi's, don't use them myself. But Uber appear to be from the scum end of the business model spectrum. But, they are cheaper. So, I guess as long as people don't then complain everything appears to be turning to shit, as long as they happily accept, the world has turned to shit but I saved £3. Then everything's cool. Like I said earlier in the thread though, it's not JUST the cost. They are generally (but not always) cheaper, but I'd happily pay more for a better service. But Uber are also more convenient, more reliable, easier to use and global meanign you can use them all over the world with the same app, in the same way you'd use them at home. Compare it to something like Primark. They are generally one of the cheapest place to buy clothes. But I wouldn't shop there. Any ethical issues aside, Primark clothes are generally quite shit, so I happily pay more for my clothes to get better quality, more fashionable stuff. Being cheaper isn't enough (although I accept it is for some people). Whereas Uber are actually a better quality product than most other taxi firms, in my experience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, Stevo985 said: Like I said earlier in the thread though, it's not JUST the cost. .... Whereas Uber are actually a better quality product than most other taxi firms, in my experience. Yeah, this is very possibly a topic I shouldn't get involved in, but lack of knowledge or experience is no longer a barrier so I thought I'd chip in. There appear to be issues with paying tax, with getting cars properly safety checked and getting drivers not to be rapey. So there appears to be a suddenly deregulated market with a race to the bottom for costs and contributions and responsibility. If less tax is being paid, internationally, nationally, and to local councils then there is less money in the coffers for 'stuff' like local authority spending on bin collections or whatever and more people earning slightly less, so shopping in Primark. So you have that whole spiral to the bottom sort of thing going on. But, and it's a big butt, it's not as though traditional taxi firms were towering examples of virtue. The perception of taxi services is pretty bloody poor, so uber and similar were probably pushing on an open door. It's not like they've set about replacing nhs first responders or lollipop ladies. Taxi's had a bad rep.. If there is a new way of doing things that means an uber experience feels like a better experience at the point of use, then people will inevitably vote with their smart phones. I'd imagine that the medium term consequence will be that everyone that worked for acme cabs drifts over to uber. Eventually, there will just be a pool of poor sods that are uber drivers and parcel delivery drivers. All just waiting for the day that uber and amazon can iron out the tech that does away with divers. At which point there is no local income and absolute minimum tax income, but a lot more people reliant on the state. Spongers. At that point, we can all be taken by surprise by the way it all panned out. Doubtless, the people hanging on to the good jobs that haven't been automated yet will say 'hey, we should share our good fortune and pay everyone a basic living wage'. In which case, everything will be fine. But there is a small chance that people that want to save £3 on a taxi fare so they can be whisked promptly to the centre of town to watch a £45 show and drink many £5 beers, they might not be the sharey types. It absolutely isn't just the immediate cost of the ride. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Its a valid point. That said I dont have to make 5 calls to uber; each one promising that the driver had just turned in to my street. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Yeah, this is very possibly a topic I shouldn't get involved in, but lack of knowledge or experience is no longer a barrier so I thought I'd chip in. There appear to be issues with paying tax, with getting cars properly safety checked and getting drivers not to be rapey. So there appears to be a suddenly deregulated market with a race to the bottom for costs and contributions and responsibility. If less tax is being paid, internationally, nationally, and to local councils then there is less money in the coffers for 'stuff' like local authority spending on bin collections or whatever and more people earning slightly less, so shopping in Primark. So you have that whole spiral to the bottom sort of thing going on. But, and it's a big butt, it's not as though traditional taxi firms were towering examples of virtue. The perception of taxi services is pretty bloody poor, so uber and similar were probably pushing on an open door. It's not like they've set about replacing nhs first responders or lollipop ladies. Taxi's had a bad rep.. If there is a new way of doing things that means an uber experience feels like a better experience at the point of use, then people will inevitably vote with their smart phones. I'd imagine that the medium term consequence will be that everyone that worked for acme cabs drifts over to uber. Eventually, there will just be a pool of poor sods that are uber drivers and parcel delivery drivers. All just waiting for the day that uber and amazon can iron out the tech that does away with divers. At which point there is no local income and absolute minimum tax income, but a lot more people reliant on the state. Spongers. At that point, we can all be taken by surprise by the way it all panned out. Doubtless, the people hanging on to the good jobs that haven't been automated yet will say 'hey, we should share our good fortune and pay everyone a basic living wage'. In which case, everything will be fine. But there is a small chance that people that want to save £3 on a taxi fare so they can be whisked promptly to the centre of town to watch a £45 show and drink many £5 beers, they might not be the sharey types. It absolutely isn't just the immediate cost of the ride. I don't dismiss any of the issues you've highlighted. My only point is there is often a perception, in this thread and elsewhere, that people use Uber PURELY because it is cheaper. "I'm saving £2 so I'll use Uber". And my counter to that is that isn't true. It's not just about saving a couple of quid. it is actually a better product. So you saying "people that want to save £3 on a taxi fare so they can be whisked promptly to the centre of town to watch a £45 show and drink many £5 beers" is a bit of a misrepresentation. I'm one of those people who will use an Uber to take me to town where I'll probably spend £100 on a night out. But I don't take an Uber to save a couple of quid, although that's a bonus. I do it because it's easy to order the Uber, I can tell where it is, it will actually turn up, payment is easy, I don't have to talk to anyone and it's easy to get one at the end of the night. I'd actually pay more than a normal taxi for that service to be honest. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 44 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I'm one of those people who will use an Uber to take me to town where I'll probably spend £100 on a night out. Flash bastard! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Tricky one isn't it, I don't know much about taxi's, don't use them myself. But Uber appear to be from the scum end of the business model spectrum. But, they are cheaper. So, I guess as long as people don't then complain everything appears to be turning to shit, as long as they happily accept, the world has turned to shit but I saved £3. Then everything's cool. See Sports Direct for a comparison in the retail world 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 4, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: See Sports Direct for a comparison in the retail world That's only on the one side of it. Imagine sports direct who also got hacked, losing all their customers details and thinking paying the Hackers ransom was keeping the data safe 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I also buy brollies and stuff from Sports Direct. I regret nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: See Sports Direct for a comparison in the retail world Still not a valid comparison, imo. I don’t think there is an equivalent in the retail world. Maybe someone like Amazon. Edited January 4, 2018 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 4, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Still not a valid comparison, imo. I don’t think there is an equivalent in the retail world. Maybe someone like Amazon. Yes, Amazon is probably a good example. Their delivery drivers are exploited in a very similar way. Imagine if Amazon got hacked, lost all their customer details, denied it, covered it up and paid the hacker not to do anything with the information he'd stolen. Would you shop there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, bickster said: Yes, Amazon is probably a good example. Their delivery drivers are exploited in a very similar way. Imagine if Amazon got hacked, lost all their customer details, denied it, covered it up and paid the hacker not to do anything with the information he'd stolen. Would you shop there? If they provided the best product/service and there wasn't a decent alternative... yeah probably. Edited January 4, 2018 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 4, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, Stevo985 said: If they provided the best product/service and there wasn't a decent alternative... yeah probably. There really is no helping you. You will willingly give your banking details to someone who it is proven can't be trusted with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, bickster said: There really is no helping you. You will willingly give your banking details to someone who it is proven can't be trusted with them. I willingly give them the details of my prepaid debit card, that sends me a notification the second it's used for any transaction and I can cancel at the touch of a button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 4, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I willingly give them the details of my prepaid debit card, that sends me a notification the second it's used for any transaction and I can cancel at the touch of a button. Do you top that card up with cash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, bickster said: Do you top that card up with cash? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Stevo985 said: But I don't take an Uber to save a couple of quid, although that's a bonus. I do it because it's easy to order the Uber, I can tell where it is, it will actually turn up, payment is easy, I don't have to talk to anyone and it's easy to get one at the end of the night. I'd actually pay more than a normal taxi for that service to be honest. Exactly same reasons for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) One additional point that is being missed here is that Uber's business model is likely failing. This is a good summary: 'Earlier installments in this Naked Capitalism series refrained from predicting Uber’s future. However, given a business strategy that depended on achieving global industry dominance, the critical question was always : could Uber achieve that dominance before it burned through its massive $13 billion war chest? Until recently it seems likely that it might, but recent events now strongly suggest that the answer may be no. While Uber’s finances are currently secure (in April it was reported to have roughly $7 billion in cash on hand out of the $13 billion originally provided by investors), it is increasingly difficult to see how Uber can survive in the longer term. For any company to rebound from a major crisis, it must have correctly identified its major problems and workable solutions, and installed strong, positive leadership that staff and other stakeholders can trust to navigate near term turmoil successfully. Uber has done none of these things. For an immature company like Uber that has always been highly unprofitable to survive a crisis, it must have a clear, widely understood plan that will rapidly reverse the multi-billion dollar losses of recent years, as well as maintain the goodwill of customers, suppliers and outside industry observers through the turnaround process. Recent events have badly undermined goodwill. There is no evidence that Uber has a credible profit turnaround plan. None of the alternative strategic paths that one can imagine appear to have much chance of success. Mature companies facing crises of culture and executive leadership usually have the cash flow and management depth that will give them the time needed to make major personnel and strategic changes. Uber does not have that time, as it has been burning through its cash for seven years, and its executive ranks have been decimated. [. . .] Uber’s real problem is that it is a staggeringly unprofitable company with fundamentally uncompetitive economics. It lost $2 billion in 2015, $3 billion in 2016, and another billion in China. It is a higher cost, less efficient producer of taxi service than traditional operators; all of its growth is explained by these multi-billion dollar subsidies as it has flooded markets with additional capacity offering unprofitably low fares. It has none of the scale or network economies that allowed other startups to quickly grow into profitability. In its fifth year of operation Facebook had achieved 25% profit margins; in Uber’s fifth year its profit margins were negative 149%. Absolute Uber losses have continued to worsen with recent growth. Margins improved somewhat in 2016, but only because Uber unilaterally reduced driver compensation by $1 billion, leading to news reports of drivers sleeping in the cars in order to make ends meet. Uber never had any hope of profitability in a competitive market, even at its present scale.' https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/06/can-uber-ever-deliver-part-ten-uber-death-watch-begins.html Edited January 4, 2018 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts