magnkarl Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Just now, bickster said: The Echo is a local joke, people only buy it for the football. Journalism died at the Echo some long while ago long before it did at its sister publication, the Meaning Evil In political terms, it quite often slags off the local Labour Council and runs campaigns that few people pay much attention to. It's known around here as the Daily Manc In comparison to the Daily Mail? Print isn't exactly going well for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 22, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2017 25 minutes ago, magnkarl said: In comparison to the Daily Mail? Print isn't exactly going well for anyone. Bit like asking me to compare Adolph Hitler to some left wing member of Tavistock Council 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Corbyn has finally understood that promising things like wiping the student debt and reducing tuition beyond a certain point will cost way too much. As many people predicted a lot of the Labour manifesto seems like it was a voter grab more than something that could be realistically done. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/23/jeremy-corbyn-denies-promising-to-wipe-student-debts Quote Labour leader said before election he would ‘deal with’ debts, but now says that was not a commitment to write them off It's easy to be in opposition when you have no hope of getting into power - however now that Labour looks likely to be the next government he's already started to back track. Some honesty from either big party would be much welcomed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Corbyn has finally understood that promising things like wiping the student debt and reducing tuition beyond a certain point will cost way too much. As many people predicted a lot of the Labour manifesto seems like it was a voter grab more than something that could be realistically done. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/23/jeremy-corbyn-denies-promising-to-wipe-student-debts It's easy to be in opposition when you have no hope of getting into power - however now that Labour looks likely to be the next government he's already started to back track. Some honesty from either big party would be much welcomed. This is predictable. He probably dodged a Nick Clegg style bullet by just falling short in the election! I said at the time that it's too easy to make wild promises and that the idea of a costed manifesto was fantasy in reality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Corbyn had his best possible result in just about every way imaginable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted July 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 23, 2017 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: Corbyn has finally understood that promising things like wiping the student debt and reducing tuition beyond a certain point will cost way too much. As many people predicted a lot of the Labour manifesto seems like it was a voter grab more than something that could be realistically done. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/23/jeremy-corbyn-denies-promising-to-wipe-student-debts It's easy to be in opposition when you have no hope of getting into power - however now that Labour looks likely to be the next government he's already started to back track. Some honesty from either big party would be much welcomed. You're conflating two different commitments. One was the promise to remove tuition fees, which was in the manifesto and is, as I understand, still Labour policy. The second was a commitment to consider wiping all student debts, pending an investigation into whether that would be feasible. The answer to that seems to be in the negative. I don't see the back-tracking here. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: You're conflating two different commitments. One was the promise to remove tuition fees, which was in the manifesto and is, as I understand, still Labour policy. The second was a commitment to consider wiping all student debts, pending an investigation into whether that would be feasible. The answer to that seems to be in the negative. I don't see the back-tracking here. Humour me if you will. JC: I will deal with student loans. You: JC said he would consider wiping all debt. What's the difference? I know that many Corbyn supporters see him as Messiah, but this is nothing short of saying he will deal with something and then back tracking when he realised it couldn't be done. There wasn't any comments on "considering wiping it", he said he'd "deal with it". It's a sound byte that helped him gain a whole swathe of student votes at my place of work and around the country. The same students are now told that it couldn't be done, and will justifiably be angry at it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: You're conflating two different commitments. One was the promise to remove tuition fees, which was in the manifesto and is, as I understand, still Labour policy. The second was a commitment to consider wiping all student debts, pending an investigation into whether that would be feasible. The answer to that seems to be in the negative. I don't see the back-tracking here. True. It's easier to let rumours rumble on the internet instead. It means you don't have to deal with the problem unless challenged. We all know how promises can be misconstrued. It was probably fortunate he didn't put his promise on a bus. Btw I'm definitely being facetious, I understand what Corbyn said and meant. Edited July 23, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 What will become clear is that those who graduate with a minimum debt of £27,000 (not including any maintenance loans which are around £3k per annum on average) will find life a lot more difficult when it comes to securing a mortgage and securing other sort of loans, whether for further education (e.g. CDL's) or to start a business, due to the leverage that they have. These certainly aren't beneficial outcomes. Hard to say what the solution is since we have de-skilled our economy so much that technical schools, which are of course a great alternative to university, may not be as well placed to make a difference as they are in countries such as Germany and the US. One could argue that having more technical schools for things like website design, software engineering and general programming could be the answer (do a lot of these things really need a degree if you decide to specialise early on?), but then it's clear to me that the combination of AI and Machine Learning will eventually render a lot of these jobs redundant within the next 10-15 years anyway. So it'd be a case of making hay while the sun shines before being thrown on the scrap heap. Everything looks a little bit bleak to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 23, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2017 Interesting (stupid) comments from Corbyn on the EU today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: You're conflating two different commitments. One was the promise to remove tuition fees, which was in the manifesto and is, as I understand, still Labour policy. The second was a commitment to consider wiping all student debts, pending an investigation into whether that would be feasible. The answer to that seems to be in the negative. I don't see the back-tracking here. He isn't going to do this I feel, typical lies that they can't afford to get votes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Chindie said: Interesting (stupid) comments from Corbyn on the EU today. What did he say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 7 hours ago, magnkarl said: Humour me if you will. JC: I will deal with student loans. You: JC said he would consider wiping all debt. What's the difference? I know that many Corbyn supporters see him as Messiah, but this is nothing short of saying he will deal with something and then back tracking when he realised it couldn't be done. There wasn't any comments on "considering wiping it", he said he'd "deal with it". It's a sound byte that helped him gain a whole swathe of student votes at my place of work and around the country. The same students are now told that it couldn't be done, and will justifiably be angry at it. I doubt they will be particularly angry about it, though time will tell I guess. The simple truth of the matter is that Labour published a manifesto for government only about two months ago. Wiping student debt wasn't contained within it. It wasn't part of their program for government, and 'we'll deal with it' really doesn't necessarily mean 'we will make it all disappear' - that's only one method of dealing with it. We'll see who is right over the next few months. If we see a lot of furious students, I'll agree with you. I doubt I'll be needing to eat humble pie personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I doubt they will be particularly angry about it, though time will tell I guess. The simple truth of the matter is that Labour published a manifesto for government only about two months ago. Wiping student debt wasn't contained within it. It wasn't part of their program for government, and 'we'll deal with it' really doesn't necessarily mean 'we will make it all disappear' - that's only one method of dealing with it. We'll see who is right over the next few months. If we see a lot of furious students, I'll agree with you. I doubt I'll be needing to eat humble pie personally. I can see it now as student unions up and down the country flock to the Conservative party ... and in other news momentum abandon Corbyn and back May 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Just now, tonyh29 said: I can see it now as student unions up and down the country flock to the Conservative party ... and in other news momentum abandon Corbyn and back May Yes, exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I doubt they will be particularly angry about it, though time will tell I guess. The simple truth of the matter is that Labour published a manifesto for government only about two months ago. Wiping student debt wasn't contained within it. It wasn't part of their program for government, and 'we'll deal with it' really doesn't necessarily mean 'we will make it all disappear' - that's only one method of dealing with it. We'll see who is right over the next few months. If we see a lot of furious students, I'll agree with you. I doubt I'll be needing to eat humble pie personally. So, if a tory politician says she'll "deal with" privatising rail/water/power/schools you think she means that she'll sit down and investigate it? Come on now. I know it's hard to admit but saying "I'll deal with it" about student loans to a NME journo is a bit like Theresa May saying she'll "deal with" fox hunting laws while talking to the 10 richest farmers in the home counties. It's a naive vote grab move that someone who is touted as a "honest politician" should be better than. If anything, it's very shady language from someone who should know better. Edited July 23, 2017 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, magnkarl said: So, if a tory politician says she'll "deal with" privatising rail/water/power/schools you think she means that she'll sit down and investigate it? Come on now. I know it's hard to admit but saying "I'll deal with it" about student loans to a NME journo is a bit like Theresa may saying she'll "deal with" fox hunting laws while talking to the 10 richest farmers in the home counties. It's a naive, vote grab move that someone who is touted as a "honest politician" should be better than. I'm not sure why you're finding it hard to accept that I simply have a different interpretation of a quote than you do. The bottom line - a manifesto is a program for government. An interview with NME just isn't, is it, especially when it's given at the same time as an actual manifesto is circulating as part of an election campaign. I suggest we leave it there. We're unlikely to persuade each other. Edited July 23, 2017 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Just now, magnkarl said: So, if a tory politician says she'll "deal with" privatising rail/water/power/schools you think she means that she'll sit down and investigate it? Come on now. I know it's hard to admit but saying "I'll deal with it" about student loans to a NME journo is a bit like Theresa may saying she'll "deal with" fox hunting laws while talking to the 10 richest farmers in the home counties. It's a naive, vote grab move that someone who is touted as a "honest politician" should be better than. The problem is taking the deal with it line in isolation , Corbyn said And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.” Its quite clear what he was saying , here's a bribe give me your vote ... tbf I don't think he was saying I'll erase it , bit people on twitter DID react to that as a promise to clear all debt and it doesn't appear as any effort was made to correct them , until today 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 easy peasy kids will still go to uni but when Jezza gets in everyone will drop out for a year to get the rest free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Labour party are in charge of Uni fees in Wales. They've just put them up. Still not as high as in England, but it does appear a bit of an incoherent approach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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