bickster Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 47 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: After Truss said that she would begin working immediately on making strikes illegal for all workers. Not quite it was all essential workers iirc As usual it was a statement rather lacking in detail and definition, red meat for the 160,000 Neither statement was particularly intelligent but yes I take your point, though I'd consider such threats from the off somewhat premature Anyway, my point was that Starmer has been trying to distance the party from the RMT strike, everyone in the Shadow Cabinet was told not to support the RMT strike publically so Starmer had no option but to remove him. Starmer really can't be seen to be siding with Mick Lynch. It would be like Neil Kinnock supporting Derek Hatton. Thats how organised left wing politics works, always has done, always will do.Sam Tarry knew that when he joined the picket line and he knew the consequences. Supporting a strike called by another party on the left is always going to end this way for a Labour MP I just wish that all parties concerned were rather more honest with their intentions. Lynch wants a General Strike because it'll be a good recruiting tool for the Socialist Party, its the way it works. Truss wants Lynch to call for one so she can push Anti-Union legislation through. They are a pair of symbiotic parasites, Starmer just wants Lynch to go away because he's going to f*** up getting Labour elected (in Starmer's view and I suspect he might have a point). The right of the Tory Party and the far Left of British politics secretly love each other because they give each other what the other wants 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 28 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Truss said that she would begin working immediately on making strikes illegal for all workers She didn’t say that. I mean she’s mind bogglingly mental and all, but that’s not what she said. What she said was she would legislate for minimum service levels on critical national infrastructure (meaning some folk would have to be at work). Still mad as a box of frogs, mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 There are 45 SNP MP’s. I wonder what part of the Starmer’s message is aimed at those traditionally Labour easy wins? It’s definitely an understandable strategy to go after the middle ground by simply being a sober change from the last winner. The problem is, Starmer wasn’t strongly pro Brexit and he isn’t hugely charismatic. So he’s throwing everything at the middle ground that wanted things that he is not. Meanwhile, that groundswell of support for social justice type policies is being allowed to wither and find other outlets. To realise they can join the Green Party, or campaign with Stop Oil, or organise Pride events. I guess in 18 months time, he’ll get a bit of face paint on and hope all the young uns will just fall in line behind distinctive Britishness and reliably businessy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: There are 45 SNP MP’s. I wonder what part of the Starmer’s message is aimed at those traditionally Labour easy wins? It’s definitely an understandable strategy to go after the… he’s throwing everything at the middle ground that wanted things that he is not. Meanwhile, that groundswell of support for social justice type policies is being allowed to wither and find other outlets. To realise they can join the Green Party, or campaign with Stop Oil, or organise Pride events. I guess in 18 months time, he’ll get a bit of face paint on and hope all the young uns will just fall in line behind distinctive Britishness and reliably businessy. I see it differently. I am guessing, but it looks like they’re (Labour) thinking along the following lines: Loads and loads of voters don’t follow bolitics closely at all. Elections are won on the centre ground (Brexit being a one off disruptor). The mass of voters reachable for Labour are not Pride protestors, SJWs, extinction rebellion or Stop the War folks, it’s all the steady eddies just wanting stuff to work, hospitals, schools, all that stuff. Now that voters have realised what a monumental bell end Bunter is and always has been, the choice is going to be between either a Phillip Hammond type with a better suit and an insta account, or a shallow Thatcher zombie with brainpower of a goldfish on the Tory side, or someone (him) who people see as capable, honest, dull-ish but decent. So I guess they feel that they need to hold their horses for now, contrast themselves with the rabble in charge and avoid talking about things that the different fringes or tribes of society get really fired up by, but which are of little interest to most people and would be a gift for the tories. Basically don’t tear themselves apart over arguments about stuff that isn’t in the front of most people’s concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 27, 2022 Author Share Posted July 27, 2022 I am very suprised starmers sacked him. Thats not veey labour thats something tories do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 13 minutes ago, blandy said: I see it differently. I am guessing, but it looks like they’re (Labour) thinking along the following lines: Loads and loads of voters don’t follow bolitics closely at all. Elections are won on the centre ground (Brexit being a one off disruptor). The mass of voters reachable for Labour are not Pride protestors, SJWs, extinction rebellion or Stop the War folks, it’s all the steady eddies just wanting stuff to work, hospitals, schools, all that stuff. Now that voters have realised what a monumental bell end Bunter is and always has been, the choice is going to be between either a Phillip Hammond type with a better suit and an insta account, or a shallow Thatcher zombie with brainpower of a goldfish on the Tory side, or someone (him) who people see as capable, honest, dull-ish but decent. So I guess they feel that they need to hold their horses for now, contrast themselves with the rabble in charge and avoid talking about things that the different fringes or tribes of society get really fired up by, but which are of little interest to most people and would be a gift for the tories. Basically don’t tear themselves apart over arguments about stuff that isn’t in the front of most people’s concerns. I guess it’s all just opinion, with one of us having the bragging rights for our political insight, after the next election. I hope its you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 17 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I guess it’s all just opinion, with one of us having the bragging rights for our political insight, after the next election. I hope its you. I have no idea if what (I think) they’re doing will work, but I’m fairly confident that the reasoning (in my view) of why they’re doing it is not that far off and the reason for my confidence is because it’s fairly easy to predict what they’re going to do next, and has been for a while - not the precise detail, but the sort of main tenets of it. There’s a logic to it, even if you/we don’t agree with the actual substance stuff. Whether it’s definitely going to lead to them winning, I have no idea this far out, but there’s a better chance than for 15 years or whatever it is, I reckon. Again, I’m posting about their tactics and methodology and stuff, not about my personal preferred policy or party or whatever. I’d be well different (and lose). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 39 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I am very suprised starmers sacked him. Thats not veey labour thats something tories do It’s exactly what Starmer said he’d do. He can’t say that’s what he’s do, then not do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, blandy said: I have no idea if what (I think) they’re doing will work, but I’m fairly confident that the reasoning (in my view) of why they’re doing it is not that far off and the reason for my confidence is because it’s fairly easy to predict what they’re going to do next, and has been for a while - not the precise detail, but the sort of main tenets of it. There’s a logic to it, even if you/we don’t agree with the actual substance stuff. Whether it’s definitely going to lead to them winning, I have no idea this far out, but there’s a better chance than for 15 years or whatever it is, I reckon. Again, I’m posting about their tactics and methodology and stuff, not about my personal preferred policy or party or whatever. I’d be well different (and lose). To me, he’s take a step too far. He’s crossed a line that some of his more lefty MP’s were not prepared for. He’s sacked a shadow minister today, on a waffle excuse basically around supporting union members on a picket line that have been offered 8% over 3 years when inflation is at 9.4%. What he might have done today, is start a bout of loud Labour in fighting. Thus undoing his aspiration to be like the tories, without the bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Does anyone else think Labour might be better off with Raynor at the helm? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, bickster said: It’s exactly what Starmer said he’d do. He can’t say that’s what he’s do, then not do it Rayner's boyfriend as well, just to add a bit of spice to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 Just now, chrisp65 said: To me, he’s take a step too far. He’s crossed a line that some of his more lefty MP’s were not prepared for. He’s sacked a shadow minister today, on a waffle excuse basically around supporting union members on a picket line that have been offered 8% over 3 years when inflation is at 9.4%. What he might have done today, is start a bout of loud Labour in fighting. Thus undoing his aspiration to be like the tories, without the bother. Nah what he’s actually done is what he said he’d do. Starmer really cannot support a Union that is run by Communists and Trotskyists. The actual aims of the strike are an irrelevance. He supports the strike and he’s instantly Corbyn Mk2. Lots of people won’t understand this but Lynch / RMT / TUSC / Socialist Party are one half of the former Militant Tendancy. The right wing press would absolutely have Starmer and Labour for breakfast if he supported it. Starmer will have calculated that’s it’s much better to take the heat from the left (as it actually does him a massive favour) than have his election prospects absolutely trashed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, bickster said: It’s exactly what Starmer said he’d do. He can’t say that’s what he’s do, then not do it He didn't for these strikes, hence the briefing that Tarry was actually sacked for saying Labour wouldn't offer below-inflation pay rises which hadn't been approved by the Leadership. The same reason Reeves and Lammy were sacked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 Mick is bang on here - Starmer needs to start standing for something - and he should really be standing for working people, for the Labour movement. Starmer might want to note the popularity of Mick Lynch - it's completely based on his ability to articulate values he believes in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 27, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 27, 2022 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Wonder what she thinks about camps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2022 Just now, OutByEaster? said: Mick is bang on here - Starmer needs to start standing for something - and he should really be standing for working people, for the Labour movement. Starmer might want to note the popularity of Mick Lynch - it's completely based on his ability to articulate values he believes in. Why would ANY Labour Party MP with half a brain cell want to drive members and workers into the hands of a cultist Trotskyite 4Th International political party who will gladly take a cut of each workers wage to pay for the revolution See that’s the really ironic thing here, the Socialist Party want their weekly / monthly donations so liberating the worker of any hard earned gains they might make them. Been there got the t-shirt and it didn’t fit It’s just a cult, Trotskyites are the Political Equivalent of Jehovah’s Witnesses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, bickster said: Nah what he’s actually done is what he said he’d do. Starmer really cannot support a Union that is run by Communists and Trotskyists. The actual aims of the strike are an irrelevance. He supports the strike and he’s instantly Corbyn Mk2. Lots of people won’t understand this but Lynch / RMT / TUSC / Socialist Party are one half of the former Militant Tendancy. The right wing press would absolutely have Starmer and Labour for breakfast if he supported it. Starmer will have calculated that’s it’s much better to take the heat from the left (as it actually does him a massive favour) than have his election prospects absolutely trashed. Hopefully at some point the tory press barons and the focus groups toss him something he’s allowed to stand for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicho Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Mick is bang on here - Starmer needs to start standing for something - and he should really be standing for working people, for the Labour movement. Starmer might want to note the popularity of Mick Lynch - it's completely based on his ability to articulate values he believes in. Corbyn did that and now he’s a raging anti semite/IRA lover/communist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 27, 2022 Author Share Posted July 27, 2022 32 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: Does anyone else think Labour might be better off with Raynor at the helm? Definitely not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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