The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[MakemineVanilla]

On 30/04/2022 at 09:08, Jareth said:

Politicians deserve a vote because they offer something that you want. If they deserve a vote because it’s the least shitest  option them folks are within their rights to abstain. Politicians often abstain themselves. 

I think the two party system works because liking one party and hating the other, allows voters to maintain their "false consciousness" by supporting the fiction that the present system is perfectable, should their preferred party get into power. Reaching the conclusion that both parties are rotten, and therefore, so is the system, destroys a person's illusion that somehow things could be just and fair, when the overwhelming evidence shows it probably won't be.

Once you've reached the conclusion that both parties are as bad, in their own way, as the other, voting seems futile.

[Demitri_C]

26 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

I think the two party system works because liking one party and hating the other, allows voters to maintain their "false consciousness" by supporting the fiction that the present system is perfectable, should their preferred party get into power. Reaching the conclusion that both parties are rotten, and therefore, so is the system, destroys a person's illusion that somehow things could be just and fair, when the overwhelming evidence shows it probably won't be.

Once you've reached the conclusion that both parties are as bad, in their own way, as the other, voting seems futile.

The scots went for a alternative to labour and conservative didnt go too badly for them.

If there was a 3rd option party it certainly would make it better for us the voters

[Seat68]

14 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

The scots went for a alternative to labour and conservative didnt go too badly for them.

If there was a 3rd option party it certainly would make it better for us the voters

There is a third option, and fourth. There are actually other options. There are options other than abstaining. 

[bickster]

Getting rid of first past the post would help an awful lot
 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

There is a third option, and fourth. There are actually other options. There are options other than abstaining. 

I dodnt say i was abstaining just that ill vote for never neither of the two main parties. 

[Mark Albrighton]

The whole beergate scandal will have damaged Starmer though, yeah? The Mail have gone full tilt on the story, they’d look particularly stupid if there was zero increase in the number of people who felt he broke the rules.

Or, if you can conceive it, the number of people who felt he had followed the rules increased…imagine.

Pfft, no way. The mail have it sewn up.
 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Mark Albrighton

[bickster]

Like I said a few days ago, we have reached that point in the election cycle. People want change and once that opinion has flipped it's very hard to get it back

Good Morning Britain's bus story today has actually really resonated, not with the politically aware twoteratti but with ordinary working people. I had a youngish lad in my car tonight on a fairly long journey, we were chatting about music, taxi driving, his job (Got his HGV in the Army now drives a bin wagon), no politics involved and all of a sudden he changed the topic to Johnson and the Bus Story, he even knew the pensioners name and was determined to vote for the first time in his life this week

Once you go past that point where the collective conciousness has decided Johnson (and the Tories) are wrong 'uns all they hear is the bad stuff and all that the papers can throw at Labour doesn't matter, Labour are no longer the baddies

 

[StefanAVFC]

On 02/05/2022 at 10:31, Demitri_C said:

The two main parties are unelectable in my view. 

This viewpoint leads to another Tory government FWIW. 

[Demitri_C]

22 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

This viewpoint leads to another Tory government FWIW. 

Or maybe a hung parliment. 

Maybe wanna tell that to the scots too who vote SNP 

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Or maybe a hung parliment. 

Maybe wanna tell that to the scots too who vote SNP 

Nope.

Tories will vote Tory anyway, holding their nose, whereas enlightened centrists will declare nobody worthy of their vote. Leading to yet another Tory government, with the same enlightened centrists complaining that the Tories have been in power for years.

We essentially have a two party system, if you want them gone, you need to vote in the best possible way in your constituency that will remove them. It's really as simple as that.

Scotland is completely irrelevant. There's enough seats in England alone for the Tories to win comfortably. Also, there is no equivalent to the SNP in England. There was UKIP but then the Tories became them.

Edited May 4, 2022 by StefanAVFC

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said:

The whole beergate scandal will have damaged Starmer though, yeah? The Mail have gone full tilt on the story, they’d look particularly stupid if there was zero increase in the number of people who felt he broke the rules.

Or, if you can conceive it, the number of people who felt he had followed the rules increased…imagine.

Pfft, no way. The mail have it sewn up.
 

 

You'd have to question how 21% of people can still think Boris generally abided by the rules when he's literally been found by the police to have broken them  

[Jareth]

53 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

This viewpoint leads to another Tory government FWIW. 

The issue is current Labour are Tory-lite - whichever way you vote, you'll be getting yourself a flag shagging government. Which is why in Wales I'll be going Plaid and I hope the Scots lead the way and get their independence ASAP - that will shake things up - i.e. which flag will the flag shaggers now want to shag?

[blandy]

1 minute ago, Jareth said:

current Labour are Tory-lite - whichever way you vote, you'll be getting yourself a flag shagging government. Which is why in Wales I'll be going Plaid

“I don’t like flag shaggers, so I’m gonna vote for the nationalists” 

[Jareth]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

“I don’t like flag shaggers, so I’m gonna vote for the nationalists” 

Big difference between being proud of your flag - and shagging it. 

[desensitized43]

42 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Nope.

Tories will vote Tory anyway, holding their nose, whereas enlightened centrists will declare nobody worthy of their vote. Leading to yet another Tory government, with the same enlightened centrists complaining that the Tories have been in power for years.

We essentially have a two party system, if you want them gone, you need to vote in the best possible way in your constituency that will remove them. It's really as simple as that.

Scotland is completely irrelevant. There's enough seats in England alone for the Tories to win comfortably. Also, there is no equivalent to the SNP in England. There was UKIP but then the Tories became them.

I said this in conversation with the Mrs yesterday when she asked who I was going to vote for in the locals tomorrow. My response was "whoever has the best chance of beating out the Tory candidate, that isn't a Representative for Wellingborough party, BNP, UKIP etc". If that candidate was Liberal, I'd vote Liberal. If it was Green, I'd vote Green. As it happens, in my area it's Labour.

I do find it sad that I'm voting "against" someone rather than "for" someone. I get that pisses people off and that it's not the way I'm "meant to use my vote" but this lot are just so egriously bad that they have to be got rid of. Hopefully a real kicking in these elections and enough of the Tory MP's will get so worried for their seats he'll get knifed by the 1922.

It's a real shame that Labour won't campaign on a platform to reform the electoral system properly into some kind of PR.

[bickster]

24 minutes ago, Jareth said:

The issue is current Labour are Tory-lite

There used to be a very valid argument for that when it was Blair / Brown vs a more centrist Tory Party. That really isn’t the case right now. There are vast differences in policy and ideology between the two main parties. The statement you’ve put forward there doesn’t really stand up to any scrutiny these days

[Jareth]

5 minutes ago, bickster said:

There used to be a very valid argument for that when it was Blair / Brown vs a more centrist Tory Party. That really isn’t the case right now. There are vast differences in policy and ideology between the two main parties. The statement you’ve put forward there doesn’t really stand up to any scrutiny these days

Would love to see these vast differences spelt out - last time I looked it was a case of Labour being less shit at the tory stuff. But each to their own - the voters will decide on these vast differences at the ballot box - then we can see. In the meantime I know a 80 year old dyed in the wool establishment tory who for the first time in their life cannot vote for his party - but that guy Starmer, yes, he can get behind him. I'd better let him know about the vast differences. 

[Mark Albrighton]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

You'd have to question how 21% of people can still think Boris generally abided by the rules when he's literally been found by the police to have broken them  

Obviously there’s going to be some dyed in the wool Boris supporters who believe he’s incapable of doing wrong and why can’t everyone just leave him alone, he’s doing a great job…

But also my guess is there’s some who will know and accept he broke the rules, but they themselves didn’t agree with them in the first place. So to their mind he’s only guilty of not following some unjust rule, despite the rules being his.

[bickster]

43 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Would love to see these vast differences spelt out - last time I looked it was a case of Labour being less shit at the tory stuff. But each to their own - the voters will decide on these vast differences at the ballot box - then we can see. In the meantime I know a 80 year old dyed in the wool establishment tory who for the first time in their life cannot vote for his party - but that guy Starmer, yes, he can get behind him. I'd better let him know about the vast differences. 

Shall we start with the hot topic of the day. Energy Windfall tax and move on from there

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

There are vast differences in policy and ideology between the two main parties. 

There are not.