The DIY thread

[chrisp65]

@Delphinho123 @blandy

Because as good as the internet is, if you don’t know what question to ask, you’re just going to get pages and pages of Americans showing you how to set light to shale gas that comes out of the faucet.

 

please note DIY water proof cover on DIY book. For laying said book on wet floors whilst trying to remember righty tighty lefty loosey.

 

 

[Seat68]

27 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

@Delphinho123 @blandy

Because as good as the internet is, if you don’t know what question to ask, you’re just going to get pages and pages of Americans showing you how to set light to shale gas that comes out of the faucet.

 

please note DIY water proof cover on DIY book. For laying said book on wet floors whilst trying to remember righty tighty lefty loosey.

 

 

The best advice ever passed to me. Righty tighty, lefty loosey. 

[a m ole]

Just now, Seat68 said:

The best advice ever passed to me. Righty tighty, lefty loosey. 

Never replace a bicycle crank.

[Delphinho123]

Bled the radiators @blandy. Not much sound of air, water came out of all of them. Water was pretty clear, very slightly yellow. 

The 3 radiators that weren’t working before still not working and still with cold pipes. I tried to follow the loop around to see if there was a pattern to the blocked rads but there really isn’t, a bit random. 

What you reckon, Thermo valves? I thought they were knackered from the start..

[blandy]

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

Bled the radiators @blandy. Not much sound of air, water came out of all of them. Water was pretty clear, very slightly yellow. 

The 3 radiators that weren’t working before still not working and still with cold pipes. I tried to follow the loop around to see if there was a pattern to the blocked rads but there really isn’t, a bit random. 

What you reckon, Thermo valves? I thought they were knackered from the start..

The next simple thing to check is the lockshield balancing valves on the other end of the rads - they could have been closed by the previous occupant - they're the valves at the opposite end to the TRVs - they usually have a plastic clip over cover on them - get an adjustable spanner and check they're not closed. Again a simple step, that if it works means no replacing anything. then report back.

[blandy]

It would help understand if you could describe the location of the things - where's the boiler, which rads in which rooms are cold - how far are they from the boiler, are they they only rad in that room, stuff like that.

[Delphinho123]

Two upstairs bedrooms. Only rads in room. Both on a different loop I think. Valves all open. Makes no sense! The other rad is one in the kitchen. 

[blandy]

7 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Two upstairs bedrooms. Only rads in room. Both on a different loop I think. Valves all open. Makes no sense! The other rad is one in the kitchen. 

Where's the boiler. How old is the house - could the rads have been added to the house after the others - are they newer/different design, for example? If so they could be on a different circuit with some sort of valve that's stuck somewhere, but (afaik) most stuff when it's added just gets added to the single heating route, unless the house is massive. - it's just cold water in to boiler, heat it up push it round a ring of pipes and back in to heat up again. But that's not something I know much about I'd need to see the house, obviously

If you look back to the page I posted from the book, then something involving draining the system might have to come next - because you can't confirm TRVs are the problem without swapping one out (unless anyone knows better)

 

[blandy]

52 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

The 3 radiators that weren’t working before still not working and still with cold pipes. I tried to follow the loop around to see if there was a pattern to the blocked rads but there really isn’t, a bit random. 

What you reckon, Thermo valves? I thought they were knackered from the start..

Actually, just thinking out load, if you were to close the lockshield valves for the 3 rads, then if the TRVs are stuck closed, that would then mean the rads were then "out of the heating loop" because both ends would be shut off (one end through a fault). so at that point, if you then opened a bleed valve on one of them, there would be little or no water pressure in the rad, and this would show, because nothing would come out of the bleed valve after a few seconds - it would just be still (i.e. at atmospheric pressure) water in them. But if the TRVs were open (and there was no other fault) then pressure would be there and water would still come out - does that make sense to you.

it doesn't eliminate some other blockage being the cause, mind. But it might give a clue?

And then that clue could lead you to, for example, putting some cleaning juice into the system and running the heating for a day or so, in the hope it cleans out whatever's blocking a pipeway, and then draining refilling it with fresh water and corrosion inhibitor

[Delphinho123]

So what you’re saying is, close the lockshield valve on the rads in question and bleed them? Would that only bleed that paticular rad? And Not the whole system? Then if I turn the TRV back to open, water should come out of the bleed valve again? If not, means the TRV is stuck closed? 

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

So what you’re saying is, close the lockshield valve on the rads in question and bleed them? Would that only bleed that paticular rad? And Not the whole system? Then if I turn the TRV back to open, water should come out of the bleed valve again? If not, means the TRV is stuck closed? 

What I'm thinking is this: if the TRVs are stuck closed then no water (or water pressure) can get IN to that rad, on the pipe in side. So then if you shut the lockshield valves as well, no water can get out and no pressure can be applied from the other end - you've effectively got a rad with no way in and no way out. for water. If that is the case, when you open the bleed valve, there can be no pressure inside it, other than what is residual from when the lockshield was previously open - and that will dissipate fast. - it's not about bleeding the rad, it's about using the bleed valve to see if there's no pressure. Because if there is pressure it confirms the TRV is OK and it's something else causing the problem.

It's just something to see if it can eliminate the TRVs from being the cause  - but it can't confirm they are the definite cause.

It seems odd that 3 TRVs would all fail "closed" at the same time, but it's not impossible. I just wonder if something else might be a factor. It's trying to get a bit more of a picture, really, before doing anything more drastic   

[Delphinho123]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

What I'm thinking is this: if the TRVs are stuck closed then no water (or water pressure can get IN to that rad, on the pipe in side. SO then if you shut the lockshield valves as well, no water can get out and no pressure can be applied from the other end - you've effectively got a rad with no way in and no way out. for water. If that is the case, when you open the bleed valve, there can be no pressure inside it, other than what is residual from when the lockshield was previously open - and that will dissipate fast. - it's not about bleeding the rad, it's about using the bleed valve to see if there's no pressure. Because if there is pressure it confirms the TRV is OK and it's something else causing the problem.

It's just something to see if it can eliminate the TRVs from being the cause  - but it can't confirm they are the definite cause.

It just seems odd that 3 TRVs would all fail "closed" at the same time, but it's no impossible. I just wonder if something else might be a factor. It's trying to get a bit more of a picture, really, before doing anything more drastic   

Let me try it. Bear with. 

[Dante_Lockhart]

My heating is so noisy. Knocking and banging all the time. We've had it set on auto on 19-20°c lately and it fires up, knocks and bangs, then when it fires up again does the same.

Theres no air in the pipes as the system has been drained (when he had the extension done) and there is also an air release valve on the boiler. I've took 2 of the thermos off the radiators that I was told were 'backwards' (in that the water flows in the side the thermostat is on) but made no difference.

All I can think is that the boiler was moved from the landing to the loft, and when he's ran the pipes he's ran them too close to the boards so when the pipes expand it's amplified by that.

[blandy]

So that's what I mean - if TRV is stuck shut, and you shut Lockshield no pressure can get in or out.

We know the rad is cold. We know there was pressure when the lockshield was open (because you bled it fine) - though it might be worth you confirming you didn't just immediately shut the bleed valve after opening it?

If the fault is NOT TRV stuck shut AND there is pressure in the underfloor pipe, then even with the lockshield shut, when you open the bleed valve, it will bleed normally. If it doesn't bleed normally then that means either the TRV is stuck shut OR another blockage is in the system, but given it bled normally with the lockshield OPEN then there must be pressure in the pipe below the floor.

The other blockage would be this type, and you'd get the same results as for a TRV stuck shut

[blandy]

4 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

the water flows in the side the thermostat is on

That's how it should be (as I understand things) the lockshield goes on the outlet.

[Dante_Lockhart]

9 minutes ago, blandy said:

That's how it should be (as I understand things) the lockshield goes on the outlet.

It might be the opposite way then - I just know the boiler man told me that these 2 particular radiators are fed at the wrong end. But like I said it's made no difference to the knocking. It's been like it 3 years now. Winter is an annoying time.

[blandy]

18 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

The pin inside the thermostatic valves are knackered I think as they don’t spring up and down and rather just move in and out

Just on this bit - what do you mean by they move in and out, but not up and down? If the valve is stuck shut, then the pin would be in/down. Do you mean you can pull it up with your fingers, but it doesn't come up of it's own accord when the rad is cold (which it obviously is)?

Down/In is valve closed and Up/out is valve open. So like I say It should spring back up if the rad is cold. If it doesn't then the valve could be/is stuck closed. I should have spotted that earlier.

If that were the case you could try and loosen it - a squirt of WD 40 or some fine oil onto the pin., let it run down into the valve, and then try and push the pin down a bit more - just to get it to move a tad - use a screwdriver blade (flat on it) or a spoon or whatever is handy and see if it pushes back a little bit - and then then tap the whole valve a few times with a tool like a screwdriver handle not too hard, but enough to potentially just shock it free of any sediment or whatever than might have caused it to stick in place - It's not the pin that is stuck, obviously it's possibly the gubbins (shut off valve part ) the pin moves that gets stuck and then the spring under the valve gubbins can't push it back up.

If you do get a bit of success there, then with your fingers see if you can wiggle it up and down (in and out) a few times and hope it works "springy" like it should. If it does then you're good to go and move on to the next one.

If that doesn't work, then you're looking at replacing them or investigating further, I think.

 

[bickster]

My solution would be. It’s fecking March, worry about it in October 

[blandy]

21 minutes ago, bickster said:

My solution would be. It’s fecking March, worry about it in October 

There is that, yeah But I reckon if @Delphinho123does that one last test, then with what he said at the start, it’ll have confirmed the TRVs, all 3 of them, are stuck shut and then he can either tap them free again, or at least buy 3 replacements with a reasonable degree of confidence that he’s not wasting money and the simple stuff has been checked and confirmed good.

Tenterhooks and fingers crossed now to see if a spot of checking and tapping - percussion adjustment, we call It at work, as in , “no I didn’t just bash it with a screwdriver handle, I percussion adjusted it” cures the problems.

[Delphinho123]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

There is that, yeah But I reckon if @Delphinho123does that one last test, then with what he said at the start, it’ll have confirmed the TRVs, all 3 of them, are stuck shut and then he can either tap them free again, or at least buy 3 replacements with a reasonable degree of confidence that he’s not wasting money and the simple stuff has been checked and confirmed good.

Tenterhooks and fingers crossed now to see if a spot of checking and tapping - percussion adjustment, we call It at work, as in , “no I didn’t just bash it with a screwdriver handle, I percussion adjusted it” cures the problems.

Guess what... 

I gave them a right good seeing to with my wrench and 3 of the 4 are working again! The other one I can’t but it’s the valve for sure. 

All that and all I needed to do was give it a good whack. Cheers YouTube! 

Thanks for all your advice Blandy!