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The DIY thread


mjmooney

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4 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

So bleed all the radiators to the point water comes out, and the boiler will repressurise itself? 

I’m not at the house now but this morning, one of the radiators that wasn’t working now has the pipe getting hot. Rad is still cold but at least the pipe isn’t! I’m going to bleed all the radiators at lunchtime and I will report back. Two of them seem dead to be honest. Just ice cold. And pipes to them cold too.

Will report back later! 

Basically yes. It sounds like there’s a lot of air in the system. The pipes will be cold if they’ve got air in them. I recommend you look for any signs of a leak while you’re bleeding your rads.

the other thing would be blockages, but let’s do the bleeding first.

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6 minutes ago, blandy said:

What make /model is the boiler. I still don’t understand your statement that “

separated gas and water. So boiler only looking after radiators”.

To be honest mate, nor do I. It’s a Worcester Greenstar. It’s not a Combi as I have a water tank in the cupboard upstairs. 

How does a system like this work? The water tank, big green thing, has a pump on it and there is a dual control thing on the wall for hot water and heating. 

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34 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

How does a system like this work? The water tank, big green thing, has a pump on it and there is a dual control thing on the wall for hot water and heating. 

These might help

B95021CD-1F4D-4DC6-8153-DA5E67061043.jpeg8AD377F7-BF01-42B7-9258-7B9BE294ED1F.jpeg

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3 minutes ago, blandy said:

These might help

B95021CD-1F4D-4DC6-8153-DA5E67061043.jpeg8AD377F7-BF01-42B7-9258-7B9BE294ED1F.jpeg

Thanks again!

My one final question, and sorry if I'm repeating myself is, if the Thermo Valve is jammed or bust, the pipes would still be hot wouldn't they? and just the radiator wouldn't? I don't mind replacing the valves, but if no hot water is getting to them through the pipes anyway, I would assume that paticular part of the system is blocked regardless of a faulty valve. 

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So in essence, you have the boiler do 2 things. 1 it heats up water for your bath, shower etc and this is stored in your tank. When you turn the tap on, it runs from the tank out to the tap, and at the same time cold water, fed by mains water pressure fills the hot tank from the bottom.

For your radiators, that is a seperate circuit. In simple terms the "ring" of radiators and pipes (see the pic) has water pumped round it. This water is heated by  a gas flame in the boiler heating the water as it flows through a (basically) reverse radiator (a heat exchanger).

But if you get air in this "ring" circuit, it will of course rise above the water and the top of one or more radiators will be cold, as the trapped air isn't heated. The more air is in there, the more of the rad is cold. If the rad is full of air it won't get hot at all. So we need to get any air out, then the water can fill the rad(s) and you're good to go. 

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1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said:

My one final question, and sorry if I'm repeating myself is, if the Thermo Valve is jammed or bust, the pipes would still be hot wouldn't they? and just the radiator wouldn't? I don't mind replacing the valves, but if no hot water is getting to them through the pipes anyway, I would assume that particular part of the system is blocked regardless of a faulty valve. 

Let's take it one step at a time.

The vertical pipes leading up to the rad could (if the radiator is full of air) also be air filled, and they'd stay cold. If the TRVs were faulty (stuck closed) , you'd expect the pipes to be hot. If the TRV was stuck open you'd expect the rads to be hot. So it's less likely to be the TRV failed (on each of the two rads). It's also more of a job to change them. So let's eliminate air as a cause first. Then if it still doesn't work, we can move to what to do next.

We need to understand if it's an air problem, and we need to understand how so much air got in. The normal cause is some kind of tiny seeping leak, which over time mounts up.

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1 minute ago, blandy said:

Let's take it one step at a time.

The vertical pipes leading up to the rad could (if the radiator is full of air) also be air filled, and they'd stay cold. If the TRVs were faulty (stuck closed) , you'd expect the pipes to be hot. If the TRV was stuck open you'd expect the rads to be hot. So it's less likely to be the TRV failed (on each of the two rads). It's also more of a job to change them. So let's eliminate air as a cause first. Then if it still doesn't work, we can move to what to do next.

We need to understand if it's an air problem, and we need to understand how so much air got in. The normal cause is some kind of tiny seeping leak, which over time mounts up.

Cool, will bleed all radiators at lunch to the point the water is coming out and will report back.

You sir, are a hero. 

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1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said:

will bleed all radiators at lunch to the point the water is coming out and will report back.

👍

I think that's wise. It takes little effort and is a very common cause of the type of thing you've described. Remember though, you want all the air out, so when you're bleeding them you'll (probably) get a sequence like this - hissing and metallic smelling air coming out, then a sort of burbling as you get a jet of mixed up air and water, and then the hissing and burbling stops and you get a jet of water only - it's at that point that you shut the bleed valve back, and not before. If you've got pale carpets or delicate wallpaper have a cloth or sponge or old towel at hand to swiftly wipe or catch any drips or errant spray. Protect the carpet with an old towel - under the rad at the end you're bleeding.

The hero will be you, once you've fixed it. 

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Just now, blandy said:

👍

I think that's wise. It takes little effort and is a very common cause of the type of thing you've described. Remember though, you want all the air out, so when you're bleeding them you'll (probably) get a sequence like this - hissing and metallic smelling air coming out, then a sort of burbling as you get a jet of mixed up air and water, and then the hissing and burbling stops and you get a jet of water only - it's at that point that you shut the bleed valve back, and not before. If you've got pale carpets or delicate wallpaper have a cloth or sponge or old towel at hand to swiftly wipe or catch any drips or errant spray. Protect the carpet with an old towel - under the rad at the end you're bleeding.

The hero will be you, once you've fixed it. 

Not all hero's wear capes, they carry Radiator keys. 

I CAN do this. 

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Does the hot water tank get hot/warm?

Daft question, maybe. I ask because I'm an aircraft engineer not a heating engineer, so don't know boiler makes and stuff - it's just that I just mooneyed "Worcester greenstar" and it says it's a combi. pdf. But maybe that's the latest model and the Greenstar name has older, non-combi versions - how old is it?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, blandy said:

Does the hot water tank get hot/warm?

Daft question, maybe. I ask because I'm an aircraft engineer not a heating engineer, so don't know boiler makes and stuff - it's just that I just mooneyed "Worcester greenstar" and it says it's a combi. pdf. But maybe that's the latest model and the Greenstar name has older, non-combi versions - how old is it?

 

 

Let me check when I get there, I'm in the process of moving into the house. I thought it was a greenstar, like my last house, but that was actually a combi. This one definitely isn't a combi. 

I think it's probably only 5 years old at most. I can see in the logbook that it hasn't been serviced since it was installed. The heating is generally very good though, it's just these couple of radiators that I need to get hot! 
Also, my showers are just trickles, but lets fix the radiators first!

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14 minutes ago, blandy said:

Does the hot water tank get hot/warm?

Daft question, maybe. I ask because I'm an aircraft engineer not a heating engineer, so don't know boiler makes and stuff - it's just that I just mooneyed "Worcester greenstar" and it says it's a combi. pdf. But maybe that's the latest model and the Greenstar name has older, non-combi versions - how old is it?

 

 

😮

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6 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

😮

Yeah. I'm going off experience with problematic boilers and heating, not doing it as a job! The reason I've got that book I took pics of is because of the problems I've had.

The good thing is that boilers and heating are fundamentally simple things. As long as you don't mess with the gas side of things and just address plumbing issues (like air in the system etc.) it's really basic. If there's issues around the actual gas side of it, then the law says you need to get a Gas Safe (Corgi registered, in old money) engineer to sort that stuff out. But for simple problems you can save a lot of money by fixing small problems yourself.

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1 minute ago, blandy said:

Yeah. I'm going off experience with problematic boilers and heating, not doing it as a job! The reason I've got that book I took pics of is because of the problems I've had.

The good thing is that boilers and heating are fundamentally simple things. As long as you don't mess with the gas side of things and just address plumbing issues (like air in the system etc.) it's really basic. If there's issues around the actual gas side of it, then the law says you need to get a Gas Safe (Corgi registered, in old money) engineer to sort that stuff out. But for simple problems you can save a lot of money by fixing small problems yourself.

Exactly. Regardless of the outcome, I've educated myself on plumbing at least! It's been enjoyable, in a weird, cold room kinda way. 

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4 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Exactly. Regardless of the outcome, I've educated myself on plumbing at least! It's been enjoyable, in a weird, cold room kinda way. 

Spot on. A week or so ago I repaired my combi at a cost of 13 quid for a part off e bay. Diagnosed the problem, bought the part, swapped it over and hot water was back. Felt like a champion.

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Just now, blandy said:

Spot on. A week or so ago I repaired my combi at a cost of 13 quid for a part off e bay. Diagnosed the problem, bought the part, swapped it over and hot water was back. Felt like a champion.

Probably saved yourself a few hundred quid as well. 

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Just now, Delphinho123 said:

Probably saved yourself a few hundred quid as well. 

Definitely. And on future heating bills - the boiler's way more efficient now.

As an aside, you say you're moving into this house and also the boiler's not been serviced for 5 years - so a couple of things: Make sure you know where the mains water cock is - either the one in the house, or the one in the street/drive - so that if you ever need to (like say if you need to drain the system) you can shut off the water. Ditto where's the (if there is one - I had to fit one) drain point for the Central heating). Also it might be worth getting the boiler serviced at some point after you've moved in - it should be fine, but once you find out what your current problem is and what caused it and fix it, there's benefit in getting it all checked over. 

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