The Tim Sherwood Thread

[markavfc40]

In order for us to have avoided relegation with a new managerial appointment he needed to be either..

 

1. Experienced with dealing with the situation and able to get results quickly or

2. Bringing with him a back room team he had worked with before who knew him and knew his methods or

3. Have a background team who knew the players and what they were capable of so as to know what they could realistically achieve or

4. Be an up and coming manager with none of the above but who could get a couple of quick results and use that positivity to increase the enthusiasm which was not at the club

 

1, 2 and 3  he did not have so you were hoping for four.

 

I think the move to bring in Kev Mac was a very shrewd one. He knows the club inside out and will have actually worked with a number of the players. Off the top of my head he’d have worked with/been at the club previously with Guzan, Hutton, Clark, Baker, Delph, Gabby, Grealish, Weimann. It is also perhaps not a bad thing that we have plenty of new eyes looking at these players as those that did know the players clearly didn't have a clue how to get the best out of them.

 

I can see why some are all doom and gloom but for now I am happy to look at this from a more positive angle. Sherwood had four days to work with the players pre Stoke. Kev Mac came in last Friday and Mark Robson the day before that. For me it is a little unfair to judge or even begin to judge what will happen under Sherwood over the coming months.

 

I fully expect with a week’s coaching under the whole management and coaching team we will see an improvement on Saturday against Newcastle. Sherwood inherited an absolute shambles and a group of players totally devoid of confidence and clueless in how to approach a game in a positive way and with any attacking intent. You don’t even begin to turn that around in less than a handful of days.

 

I do worry that the change was made too late but I am not yet throwing the towel in. We need a win and I am still hopeful that if that can come over the next couple of games that will be the catalyst that can still see us safe this season. I think playing away this Saturday will suit us as you could sense the crowd on Saturday were understandably edgy and that did transmit itself on to the pitch. 

 

I like Sherwoods positive attitude. It is what the players needed if they are to have a sniff of a chance of staying up and I still think we can get a quick positive bounce off the new manager coming in.

Edited February 23, 2015 by markavfc40

[briny_ear]

I agree, Mark. Our main hope of staying up now is for TS to instil a positive attitude in the players so that they will start banging in goals against some of the weaker sides we play.

At present we have a team sleepwalking towards relegation while our rivals like Burnley, Leicester and QPR are showing a bit of fight. Sherwood won't be able to do much to improve the quality of our play, so effort is the main thing to work on.

Edited February 23, 2015 by briny_ear

[Richard]

In reality the big mistake that we made was not sacking Lambert earlier. We've left ourselves with very little time to turn things around. I think the players have gone mentally and TS will have to work a miracle to turn it around.

he was backed,  and then some  

[Villastine]

I think Sherwood will have learnt an awful lot from that defeat.

 

Other results have not punished us as much as they could have. He has a week to work with the players before we go to Newcastle.

He needs to get them to be more competitive individually and he needs to bed in a game plan.

 

I think we were unlucky not to get a point on Saturday and bizarrely I think that’s a slight improvement.

 

I think he will shuffle the deck a little and by the time we face West Brom and Sunderland we will have an actual TEAM with actual TACTICS.

Hers hoping anyway….UTV

[VillaGoMarching]

Given how Newcastle are performing, I think next week should see an improvement of sorts. Coaching team will have had a week to work with the team.

[Richard]

KMAC may know the club structure / layout / behind the scenes staff well but it has changed a lot since he was last here and if I recall anyway there were a lot saying he needed to go when he did last time.

 

Of the players he knows at the club I'd argue Guzan,  Clark ,  Baker ,  Hutton we dont have much of a problem if any with and they have improved anyway this season.

 

Delph maybe needs some help not sure what KMAC can do there,  Gabby needs dropping full stop and for me is beyond help,  Grealish hardly plays and was basically a youngster when KMAC was here so will have changed a lot in the few years since and Weimann similar to Grealish.

 

So really I think people are over playing the "he knows the club and the players" angle.  For me it is not a good appointment in terms of quality but probably the best we can do.  The shrewdness is in the "he knows the club and the players" angle which I have just said is not that strong anyway

[Stevo985]

I think Sherwood will have learnt an awful lot from that defeat.

 

Other results have not punished us as much as they could have. He has a week to work with the players before we go to Newcastle.

He needs to get them to be more competitive individually and he needs to bed in a game plan.

 

I think we were unlucky not to get a point on Saturday and bizarrely I think that’s a slight improvement.

 

I think he will shuffle the deck a little and by the time we face West Brom and Sunderland we will have an actual TEAM with actual TACTICS.

Hers hoping anyway….UTV

My worry is that in his short career Sherwood hasn't proven himself to be up to much tactically. His approach at Spurs was to play 4-4-2 and to motivate the players, which he managed. And it worked because Spurs were actually a good team.

 

I'm not sure that's good enough for us.

 

Hopefully Tim has some new tactical approaches hidden up his sleeves.

[terrytini]

Agree with all that mark.

Also think there are a few people who seem to think because they can reel off a list of managers names the club could have chosen better....a rather easily made but harder to substantiate claim !

I think it remarkable just how quickly people have written off the idea that the manager is going to turn it around.

In my view too many players no longer knew exactly what was expected, the whole ethos had become stale and negative, and too little coaching (free kicks, corners,etc) was evident.

I think all those things take longer than a few days to fix, but in any event even having done so doesn't automatically mean you win games.....losing to stoke (in the last minute) doesn't mean we can't beat anyone else.

All that mattered, and still matters, is 18 points, whether they come from the first game or the last.

I don't know, nobody does, whether Sherwood will do it, but it is too soon to decide he can't.

[useless]

I'm not expecting a miracle just because the players will have spent an extra week with the coaching team. It all seems so haphazardly thrown together to me. Sherwood strikes me as a bit of a chancer. But then again the players have gotten themselves out of trouble before so should be able to do it again.

Edited February 23, 2015 by useless

[markavfc40]

 

 

So really I think people are over playing the "he knows the club and the players" angle.  For me it is not a good appointment in terms of quality but probably the best we can do.  The shrewdness is in the "he knows the club and the players" angle which I have just said is not that strong anyway

 

Do we need someone who knows the plenty of players though? We had that under Lambert and produced the worst runs of form and standard of football in the clubs history. Perhaps some fresh eyes is exactly what is needed. Lets all hope so anyway.

Edited February 23, 2015 by markavfc40

[Richard]

Given how Newcastle are performing, I think next week should see an improvement of sorts. Coaching team will have had a week to work with the team.

 Not sure anyone can look at how the other team is doing in isolation to us.  Stoke had a number of injuries,  were battered 4-1 last game out and came to us when we had a lot of positivity in the last week and a supposed new manager bounce.  

 

Now from the reaction it seems a draw would have been good enough for some people but I'm afraid if we couldnt win against Stoke in those circumstances Im not sure how we can say that we are likely to beat Newcastle

[Richard]

 

 

 

So really I think people are over playing the "he knows the club and the players" angle.  For me it is not a good appointment in terms of quality but probably the best we can do.  The shrewdness is in the "he knows the club and the players" angle which I have just said is not that strong anyway

 

Do we need someone who knows the players though? We had that under Lambert and produced the worst runs of form and standard of football in the clubs history. Perhaps fresh eyes is exactly what is needed. Lets all hope so anyway.

 

In which case why appoint Macdonald?  What qualities does he have to help us avoid relegation? The one redeeming feature seemd to be "its shrewd as he knows the club and the players" well 1) he doesnt and 2) couldnt care less its about the quality of the person and for me that is not Macdonald

[Stevo985]

Agree with all that mark.

Also think there are a few people who seem to think because they can reel off a list of managers names the club could have chosen better....a rather easily made but harder to substantiate claim !

 

This might have been aimed at me.

 

I never said the club could have chosen better, and I've acknowledged that Sherwood might have been the best choice, although that will depend on the next couple of months.

 

What i did say with my list was that people are claiming that Sherwodd is the only person who we could get or that our options were very slim as there's not many available.

 

That's not true. There are dozens of managers out there, and Fox himself has confirmed that there was an "unbelievable" amount of interest in the job.

 

I'm behind Sherwood and if he was the best choice then fair enough.

 

But to say we didn't have any other options or that there was hardly anyone out there just isn't true, imo.

IF we go down, and it is an IF as Sherwood could get us the results we need, then it will have been the wrong appointment.

 

Yes Lambert should have gone earlier, but that doesn't change the fact that the right appointment could have saved us.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Stevo985

[terrytini]

I think Sherwood will have learnt an awful lot from that defeat.

 

Other results have not punished us as much as they could have. He has a week to work with the players before we go to Newcastle.

He needs to get them to be more competitive individually and he needs to bed in a game plan.

 

I think we were unlucky not to get a point on Saturday and bizarrely I think that’s a slight improvement.

 

I think he will shuffle the deck a little and by the time we face West Brom and Sunderland we will have an actual TEAM with actual TACTICS.

Hers hoping anyway….UTV

My worry is that in his short career Sherwood hasn't proven himself to be up to much tactically. His approach at Spurs was to play 4-4-2 and to motivate the players, which he managed. And it worked because Spurs were actually a good team.

 

I'm not sure that's good enough for us.

 

Hopefully Tim has some new tactical approaches hidden up his sleeves.

As you say it worked there...so maybe that's why he used it ?

It is scant evidence to worry that he somehow isn't aware or is reluctant to use other tactics in my view.

What is clear is the players minds are so scrambled we need, more than tactics, each one to be given a clear role from now until the end of the season, and somehow also be freed up mentally to perform it.

I mean, look at the tactics some other fans choices have used over the years, lie pulis and allerdyce, the tactics have been simple, it is the motivation, clarity, and organisation that has worked for them.

[useless]

My guess was that they employed Macdonald because he'd be a cheap replacement should it go wrong with Sherwood and we get relegated.

[Stevo985]

 

 

I think Sherwood will have learnt an awful lot from that defeat.

 

Other results have not punished us as much as they could have. He has a week to work with the players before we go to Newcastle.

He needs to get them to be more competitive individually and he needs to bed in a game plan.

 

I think we were unlucky not to get a point on Saturday and bizarrely I think that’s a slight improvement.

 

I think he will shuffle the deck a little and by the time we face West Brom and Sunderland we will have an actual TEAM with actual TACTICS.

Hers hoping anyway….UTV

My worry is that in his short career Sherwood hasn't proven himself to be up to much tactically. His approach at Spurs was to play 4-4-2 and to motivate the players, which he managed. And it worked because Spurs were actually a good team.

 

I'm not sure that's good enough for us.

 

Hopefully Tim has some new tactical approaches hidden up his sleeves.

As you say it worked there...so maybe that's why he used it ?

It is scant evidence to worry that he somehow isn't aware or is reluctant to use other tactics in my view.

What is clear is the players minds are so scrambled we need, more than tactics, each one to be given a clear role from now until the end of the season, and somehow also be freed up mentally to perform it.

I mean, look at the tactics some other fans choices have used over the years, lie pulis and allerdyce, the tactics have been simple, it is the motivation, clarity, and organisation that has worked for them.

 

I agree. And I've said as much in my post.

 

Just because I'm worried doesn't mean that I think what I've said is definitely true. I hope that Sherwood has some tactical ideas.

 

All I said was that I was cautious.

[Didiersix]

Like Richard, I was hoping for more of a 'dead cat' bounce on Saturday. It had a very anticlimactic feel. What surprised me a bit was the omission of Cleverley.. I thought he did well against Leicester. Of all the problems he does have though, Sherwood's biggest is Benteke.

 

The big man is so out of sorts at the moment.. even in the warm up he was screwing his shots everywhere.

[Richard]

My guess was that they employed Macdonald because he'd be a cheap replacement should it go wrong with Sherwood and we get relegated.

The appointment of Macdonald for me was very much like the time we appointed GTMK2,  as a sop to the fan base

[VILLAMARV]

Club is in a mess. Reminds me a lot of the Turner >> Mcneill relegation season

Me too

[markavfc40]

 

 

Now from the reaction it seems a draw would have been good enough for some people but I'm afraid if we couldnt win against Stoke in those circumstances Im not sure how we can say that we are likely to beat Newcastle

 

 

Why? We went into the Stoke game with a manager that had worked with the players for 4 days and his coaching staff for half that. I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect that Sherwood and his coaching staff can start to have a bigger impact over the next week.

 

I am not kidding myself though. Whoever came in was inheriting an absolute mess with players totally devoid of confidence and who’d had all the attacking intent and prowess coached out of them by the previous manager. To turn that around  quick enough to keep us up is going to take some doing. To turn it around with in a couple of days was verging on the impossible.

 

I still maintain we have a good group of players. Better than at least half a dozen clubs in this division and equal to another handful. I now also believe we have a manager who may be capable of getting the best out of them which is a step in the right direction as the previous one had proved that he couldn't.

Edited February 23, 2015 by markavfc40