pacbuddies Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 If we take a critical look at our first team and where they actually came from Guzan lesser league Hutton, Cissokho from top leagues. Clark - Villa youth Vlaar lesser league Sanchez Elche Delph league one Gil 8 apps for Valencia Weimann - Villa youth (16yo from R.Vienna) Gabby - Villa youth Benteke lesser league A little unfair and skewed. Vlaar - played for Holland at the World cup and is an established international. Sanchez - played for Columbia at the World Cup and is an international. Delph - not purchased by Lambert and has been in the PL a few seasons now and is now in the England set up. Gabby - not purchased by Lambert and has been in the PL for quite a while. Benteke - is a Belgian international and would have played at the World Cup if not for injury. Lambert is not working with inferior players any more. He has admitted himself that this is the best squad he has had since he has been here an alluded to better things when given a new contract earlier in the season. For me this whole 'financial restrictions', 'Lambert has had to shop at Poundland', 'Lerner is to blame' type crap doesn't wash after 3 seasons. He is responsible now, no doubts, no whitewash. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2015 The point I was making was not about their quality. It was about the shop we bought them in.But why would you choose that as the way to judge your expectations of what they should be able to do?Well I did ask the question, on what objective basis do people think we should be 10th. I've put forward a reason for why people might have a distorted view of what is at our disposal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 6, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think where Lambert has gotten his players from means he deserves credit for the squad he's built. But like I've said elsewhere, that then means he loses credit for not getting them to perform as they should. I'm not so sure it's a top 10 squad. But it's certainly not a relegation scrap squad, imo. No improvement as the fixtures ease up is unacceptable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2015 For me this whole 'financial restrictions', 'Lambert has had to shop at Poundland', 'Lerner is to blame' type crap doesn't wash after 3 seasons. He is responsible now, no doubts, no whitewash.How many seasons does a manager have to shop at Poundland before that excuse is no longer valid though? For me, the longer you are forced to shop at Poundland, the more relevant that excuse becomes over time, because your squad becomes more Poundland and less everything else.Look, I'm not saying he's doing a great job all things being equal in the Premier League. We know we're perilously close to relegation. I'm just saying all things aren't equal. I think we only differ on who is to blame. I blame Lerner. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think where Lambert has gotten his players from means he deserves credit for the squad he's built. But like I've said elsewhere, that then means he loses credit for not getting them to perform as they should. I'm not so sure it's a top 10 squad. But it's certainly not a relegation scrap squad, imo. No improvement as the fixtures ease up is unacceptable.Yes. If you are pulling gems out of the dirt then you deserve the credit and the board deserve the criticism for making you continually sift through the dirt. I also agree on your last sentence and I expect that we will too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 6, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yep I do too. I don't think we'll go down with Lambert here for the rest of the season (But that doesn't mean I think he should stay, before DCJ or pacbuddies jump down my throat!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think he should go at the end of the season regardless. Even if our form picks up I won't be convinced now - we're just too prone to collapses under him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted February 6, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2015 1500 pages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Bugger, I have just 'Liked' one of Mantis' posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 1500 pages! In just over 12 months as the previous thread was pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 We could still do with a poll. Forget all that should he go now or wait until the end of the season mess. Just a straight forward sack him or keep him. I'd be amazed if there was less than 75% said sack him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think where Lambert has gotten his players from means he deserves credit for the squad he's built. But like I've said elsewhere, that then means he loses credit for not getting them to perform as they should. I'm not so sure it's a top 10 squad. But it's certainly not a relegation scrap squad, imo. No improvement as the fixtures ease up is unacceptable. I can see us losing to Chelsea quite comfortably then its Hull away. If we get beaten away at Hull then we are in serious trouble because we wont get anything from the Stoke or Newcastle games thats for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more. Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 6, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think where Lambert has gotten his players from means he deserves credit for the squad he's built. But like I've said elsewhere, that then means he loses credit for not getting them to perform as they should. I'm not so sure it's a top 10 squad. But it's certainly not a relegation scrap squad, imo. No improvement as the fixtures ease up is unacceptable. I can see us losing to Chelsea quite comfortably then its Hull away. If we get beaten away at Hull then we are in serious trouble because we wont get anything from the Stoke or Newcastle games thats for sure I don't think "that's for sure" at all. But I do agree that losing to Hull would be a disaster. That's the tipping point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. This is what baffles me, seems like he doesnt know what he is doing. Throughout his career his style of play was always fairly direct at Norwich,Colchester and Wycombe nothing revolutionary or terribly exciting. It didnt really when he got here but this switch to having more possesion halfway through a season when we are doing shit really is baffling. He has 3 days with Pep Guardiola and he thinks we can be Bayern Munich all of a sudden, its beyond a joke infact its embarrasing. Possesion football requires great movement and highly technical players which is why it works at teams like Barca and Bayern. Villa have 2 players who you could argue are very technical but unfortunatly one of them only plays 4 games a year and the movement of Benteke, Wiemann and Gabby is crap to be be polite. The Bayern way requires good wide players we have Nzogbia,Sinclair and Richardson. Lambert's latest little experiment is doomed the players are just to shite to play this way and I'm not even sure Lambert even knows how to coach this way either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chap of Steel Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Definitely don't think tomorrow will be Lambert's Bolton match. That was a match against a relegation-battling team which on paper we should have won. It would be typical of the unpredictable nature of Lambert's Villa if we picked up a draw or win tomorrow like the Man United game. Whether it's changing style of football or formation it always seems slightly random with Lambert. I still don't think he's lost the dressing room though, and when people say he can't motivate the players, how has he done it in the past then when we've occasionally recorded good results? Unfortunately Lambert was a manager most of us, me included, wanted in the Summer of 2012 and I think the board always remember that he was a popular choice. Granted, he has experience in keeping us up but with the squad he has at his disposal we shouldn't be 16th. Like many have said for me the risk of appointing someone new is lesser than that of keeping him on. We're going nowhere at the moment and clubs will be looking at us for an easy three points... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think where Lambert has gotten his players from means he deserves credit for the squad he's built. But like I've said elsewhere, that then means he loses credit for not getting them to perform as they should. I'm not so sure it's a top 10 squad. But it's certainly not a relegation scrap squad, imo. No improvement as the fixtures ease up is unacceptable. I can see us losing to Chelsea quite comfortably then its Hull away. If we get beaten away at Hull then we are in serious trouble because we wont get anything from the Stoke or Newcastle games thats for sure I don't think "that's for sure" at all. But I do agree that losing to Hull would be a disaster. That's the tipping point. I might be wrong but I dont think our recent record at St James Park is that great and they are miles better than us IMO, I dont think our record is that great against Stoke at Villa Park either and they seem to be better away from home under Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think we should be 12th 10th because the likes of Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Sanchez, Okore and Guzan are good players and that spine is no worse than a number of clubs and capable of far, far more.Lambert has been restricted in what he can spend, as have Swansea, an significantly smaller club, yet we can't compete on the pitch with them.Which in a way is a feather in Lambert's cap, that he can even have a squad with that much quality ... and it does lead us on to your next paragraph. It also doesn't explain away Lambert tactical inefficiencies. How do we play? What is our means of breaking a side down? Why has there been no improvement in two and half years in style of play or quality of football? We have gone from ineffective lumping to ineffective square passing. It's nowhere near good enough and that is down to the manager that is clearly out they're depth.I sincerely hope that the addition of Gil & Sinclair will fill in the final holes. Our defence is sorted*. Our striker is starved. If we now possess the players to get the ball from midfield to our striker on a more regular basis then things will start to look up. We do need to get Chelsea out of the way and I do agree with those who are saying the Hull game is absolutely mahoosive for our season. In the past we have tended to get results when we've really really needed them. I only hope the same thing happens here, otherwise we're staring down the barrel.* Yes I know we just lost 5-0 to Arsenal but before that we had 5th best defence and we're not the only side who'll take a hiding off that lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 We are all rehashing each other as is the way with VT but anyway for the sake of "taking the pulse" my two pennies are. He is a good buyer of players and a poor coach. I could not believe he kept his job in the summer after the way we ended last season, everything about the team and his demeanor said to me he was a dead man walking. He has now assembled a reasonable side on not much money and he deserves credit for that. However he doesnt seem to have the ideas or generate the belief in order for us to truely kick on. That said I think we will be safe nonetheless, main reason being I think Benteke will come back to life at some point. He has missed a lot of chances in the last 10 or so games and that would have made a big points difference to us. I reckon he'll start putting a few away and we'll be safe enough to paper over the cracks for another year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 6, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think where Lambert has gotten his players from means he deserves credit for the squad he's built. But like I've said elsewhere, that then means he loses credit for not getting them to perform as they should. I'm not so sure it's a top 10 squad. But it's certainly not a relegation scrap squad, imo. No improvement as the fixtures ease up is unacceptable. I can see us losing to Chelsea quite comfortably then its Hull away. If we get beaten away at Hull then we are in serious trouble because we wont get anything from the Stoke or Newcastle games thats for sure I don't think "that's for sure" at all. But I do agree that losing to Hull would be a disaster. That's the tipping point. I might be wrong but I dont think our recent record at St James Park is that great and they are miles better than us IMO, I dont think our record is that great against Stoke at Villa Park either and they seem to be better away from home under Hughes. Well newcastle are pretty shite under John Carver and we've already beaten Stoke once this season. You might be right. But I still think saying we're "sure" not to get any points out of those two games is pretty over the top. It's not like they are Chelsea and Man City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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