Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) I really wish you'd give up this net transfer spend argument, it's totally useless, and actively unhelpful in understanding finances. Let's say there are two clubs. One lets Fabian Delph leave for a free, and then signs Tom Cleverley for £8m. Another sells Aguero for £50m and buys Suarez for £58m. In your model, these two football clubs should be considered to be equal in terms of ability. You cannot understand the value of a business by looking only at its trading activity, while specifically ignoring the value of its assets. It's absurd. To start off with: Club A: Has Delph Club B: Has Aguero Therefore to start off with Club B is ALREADY in a superior position than club A as it ALREADY has a superior and more valuable player. Both teams then, in your example, increase their net transfer spend by £8m. The final outcome is club A is still superior therefore totally logical! Exactly, club A is still superior but that isn't shown by just looking at the net transfer spend. The net transfer spend is the same but that doesn't refect the quality, or cost, of either squad. Yet thats what you're doing, just looking at the net, even though, as you say above, that two clubs could have the same net and yet have a massively different cost & quality of squad. Edited December 2, 2014 by Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Difficult game tonight I think we will have problems with their midfielders running from deep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Curtis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 If we had Mourhino or Ferguson we'd have a bit of an honeymoon period but in the long run we wouldn't be much better than we are now, midtable at best. Likewise if you were to put Lambert in charge of Chelsea he'd be challenging for the title with them. So if Mcleish was manager of Chelsea they would be challenging for the title????? Any excuse to have a dig at McLeish. Save your energy for the incompetent buffoon that is currently in charge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Curtis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 He's doing such a terrible job it's deflecting from the awful chairman. Lambert is a good distraction for Lerner to have hanging around. Very good post, in my opinion. I was against Lerner hiding away from the start. It is no way to run any business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2014 He's doing such a terrible job it's deflecting from the awful chairman. Lambert is a good distraction for Lerner to have hanging around. Very good post, in my opinion. I was against Lerner hiding away from the start. It is no way to run any business. Well that's nonsense. I'm not saying Lerner is doing a good job. But the problem isn't that he's "hiding away" I'd rather have a chairman who is media shy than a chairman like Dave Whelan who can't help talking to every media outlet there is. I'd just prefer it if the Chairman ran the club a bit better whilst he was "hiding away" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Curtis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 He's doing such a terrible job it's deflecting from the awful chairman. Lambert is a good distraction for Lerner to have hanging around. Very good post, in my opinion. I was against Lerner hiding away from the start. It is no way to run any business. Well that's nonsense. I'm not saying Lerner is doing a good job. But the problem isn't that he's "hiding away" I'd rather have a chairman who is media shy than a chairman like Dave Whelan who can't help talking to every media outlet there is. I'd just prefer it if the Chairman ran the club a bit better whilst he was "hiding away" Why does he never speak out? Why is he rarely at a game? Sorry, it is not nonsense. Trying to throw the Dave Whelan comparison in does not help the discussion. He may soon be proven to be not fit and proper for the position. Lerner is not a good leader. This leads to anarchy within the ranks and it is no wonder that so many people say that the club is rotten from top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2014 I am not, for one second, arguing that Lerner is a good leader. What I'm arguing is him staying out of the spotlight is not the problem. There's a million things wrong with Lerner's ownership before you get to him being media shy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Curtis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 If he was in the limelight he would not have let this situation fester. I imagine him sitting at home and hearing that we are losing then saying 'f*** that' and turning the radio/tv/computer off or pulling the sheets over his head, hoping it was just a bad dream. Whatever he is doing is not in the best interests of the club. It may be in the interests of his pocket, by not wanting to pay Lambert compensation but the tipping point has been reached. His investment is shot. He can't salvage it now unless he is very lucky and that will take more investment. Its like someone hoping to keep throwing a double six. Gamble after gamble, most of them lost. It is time for hands on management. Seeing everyone pitch in during a crisis gives a warm glow. We haven't got that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2014 None of your post apart from the first two sentences are relevant to my point. Again, I'm not trying to argue that he is running the club well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I still believe there is a good manager in PL somewhere. You can't do what he did at Norwich and not be a good manager. However, things at Villa have gone too far. He is no good for this club. We need a new face and someone to inject something into our club. Players and staff are far too comfortable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I still think his confidence got smashed somewhere along the line in that the swashbuckling naive style he tried in his 1st season was replaced by cautiousness after about 5 games last season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2014 I still believe there is a good manager in PL somewhere. You can't do what he did at Norwich and not be a good manager. However, things at Villa have gone too far. He is no good for this club. We need a new face and someone to inject something into our club. Players and staff are far too comfortable. I said similar last season. I think there's way way more wrong at Villa than the manager, and I wouldn't be remotely surprised if he's successful in his next job. But it's hard to argue against the fact that it just isn't working at Villa, and he's very much part of the problem. Unless he manages a remarkable turnaround soon, I think it's in everybody's interests that we part company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted December 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2014 None of your post apart from the first two sentences are relevant to my point. Again, I'm not trying to argue that he is running the club well. Does Lerner run the club? I was under the impression he was the owner, not the CEO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2014 None of your post apart from the first two sentences are relevant to my point. Again, I'm not trying to argue that he is running the club well. Does Lerner run the club? I was under the impression he was the owner, not the CEO. Ok, "owning" the club well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted December 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2014 Ok, "owning" the club well Sorry. Reading that back it did come across as condescending - and that wasn't the intention. What I am getting at is that Lerner, as owner, is responsible for putting people in the right positions: CEO, Manager, Board Members. These people then run the club and report back to the owner. I think Lerner has made some pretty poor decisions in that regard, but had he made some better ones people wouldn't be mentioning him at all. They'd be praising the people he appointed for the jobs they are doing - and rightly so. So while Lerner hasn't made good decisions, he's not at fault for the turgid way our club has performed during Lambert's tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Curtis Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 None of your post apart from the first two sentences are relevant to my point. Again, I'm not trying to argue that he is running the club well. Except you are happy that he runs it by email and phone calls. It is because of this poor management that what I wrote after the first two sentences becomes appropriate. The General is still down as a non-exec Director. Are you happy with him in that post, by the way? It might as well be a fictitious Board. The Board Room must have justone chair in it and be inches deep in dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2014 Well, tonight should be bloody interesting now Benteke is back and apart from Delph, we have a fit midfield. Let's see how we approach this game offensively with a nearly fit squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2014 I'd love to see the same as Burnley, but with Benteke in instead of Gabby. You just know that won't happen though. Gabby will be shoehorned into the attack, probably at the expense of Cole. Which will be annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2014 I'd love to see the same as Burnley, but with Benteke in instead of Gabby. You just know that won't happen though. Gabby will be shoehorned into the attack, probably at the expense of Cole. Which will be annoying. If Cole is dropped for any other reason than fitness then I will be hugely disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I really wish you'd give up this net transfer spend argument, it's totally useless, and actively unhelpful in understanding finances. Let's say there are two clubs. One lets Fabian Delph leave for a free, and then signs Tom Cleverley for £8m. Another sells Aguero for £50m and buys Suarez for £58m. In your model, these two football clubs should be considered to be equal in terms of ability. You cannot understand the value of a business by looking only at its trading activity, while specifically ignoring the value of its assets. It's absurd. To start off with: Club A: Has Delph Club B: Has Aguero Therefore to start off with Club B is ALREADY in a superior position than club A as it ALREADY has a superior and more valuable player. Both teams then, in your example, increase their net transfer spend by £8m. The final outcome is club A is still superior therefore totally logical! Exactly, club A is still superior but that isn't shown by just looking at the net transfer spend. The net transfer spend is the same but that doesn't refect the quality, or cost, of either squad. Yet thats what you're doing, just looking at the net, even though, as you say above, that two clubs could have the same net and yet have a massively different cost & quality of squad. Come on Pongo, don't get trying to be logical about it, you are getting In the way of the witchunt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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