pacbuddies Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 The basis of all the differing degrees of support for Lambert in this thread comes down to the simple point of Relegation. Keeping Lambert in charge means we are highly unlikely to be relegated this season, sacking him you run a much bigger risk of relegation. I'm sorry, but I think that's complete bollocks. I think we're far more likely to go down with Lambert in charge rather than someone like... Pullis? The end of last season shows Lambert's Villa can really struggle to pick up points, this season shows we're struggling to pick up points. It wouldn't surprise me if we score under 25 goals all season, which would be horrific. At least Pullis would have a game plan and some organisation. It might be shit football, but it can't get much worse at the minute. Well to achieve 25 goals for the season then Lambert would have to increase the current p*** poor goals per game ratio of 0.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 The basis of all the differing degrees of support for Lambert in this thread comes down to the simple point of Relegation. Keeping Lambert in charge means we are highly unlikely to be relegated this season, sacking him you run a much bigger risk of relegation. I'm sorry, but I think that's complete bollocks. I think we're far more likely to go down with Lambert in charge rather than someone like... Pullis? The end of last season shows Lambert's Villa can really struggle to pick up points, this season shows we're struggling to pick up points. It wouldn't surprise me if we score under 25 goals all season, which would be horrific. At least Pullis would have a game plan and some organisation. It might be shit football, but it can't get much worse at the minute. Without Christian Benteke is how you qualify the statement in bold. Omit massive mitigating factors and you erode credibility in your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I thing the argument that has been made over the last 1000 pages comes down simply to Villa's position in this world. If you believe we are a midtable team then you're right and Lambert should be sacked. If you believe we are a struggling team, lower midtable then you think he's under-performed. If you believe, like me, that the finances and set up of this club and barely enough to survive then Lambert isn't the problem. I think a lot of managers would have got us relegated. I'd prefer to play the cr*p anti-football of last night and tread water in the hope of a better future (change of ownership) than play exciting football and be destroyed because we don't have the finances to be that exciting. Lerner doesn't deserve a Premier League team, and pushes the boundary further every year. One year he'll push too hard. Lambert has limited chance to improve the style of team. But i think at this point, few will be swayed from their viewpoint. Totally agree with this, unfortunately I think is the year he has pushed too hard and will end up owning a Championship team come the summer. The thing is Lerner will have lost value in the club and will probably have to spend more money to try and get us back up then it would have cost to give Lambert a decent shot at improving the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaretVilla Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I think he has had more than enough time to show us that he has the ability to sort us out, he has failed in that too. Also the Bent substitution was rather bizarre to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 We can't progress because of the financial constraints, the likes of Bradford and Sheffield United have.. oh wait. Doesn't wash me with me sorry. The excuse has worn thin over the years and the football has got worse over the time too. we also beat Cityx2, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool x2 in his time. Sort of kills the predictable moaning cup excuses doesnt it Followed by awful results against those around us or lower than us. Which again highlights his time here, inconsistent and never built on any result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Constant use of various circumstances to deflect any blame ruins credibility. Let's face it if benteke was fit, you'd blame other injuries, if we had a full team you'd blame finances or tough fixtures. There is always something. And after 100 games to keep using excuses seems complete desperation to ignore the obvious short comings of a paul Lambert Aston villa team. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Last night Southampton took a player off they bought in the summer who cost double our entire summer spend Last night they were able to play an inform first team made up of the current England flavour of the month, a top Italian striker who has scored goals for fun, an attacking midfielder who was cherished by a few clubs in the summer at upwards of 25M and a left back bought for around 8M who we all jizzed over last season, and many more first team regulars 7 of whom are ever presents and a back four untouched in god knows how many games They are second in the league on merit They have "their best premier league record against Villa " and I hate that as every team we play seems to have a best record against us for one thing or another We had a largely experimental back four with a player retuening after being out of first team action for 15 months and his partner who, frankly, have the fans would rather not play for us again A defensive midfielder who is getting used to this league and another who is struggling to adapt to life at a new club A forward line without ouir best player and one who is showing evidence of retiring from first team football and Nzogbia who to be honest has never played for us, not once. You know what, the team we picked is probably about the best we could have picked currently given our injury status. The one they picked is better than ours and it pains me to say a team like Southampton who were two divisions below us when Lerner arrived I think, are better than us We were on the back of some awful form admittedly some of that against top teams, and they are on the back of champions league form many predicted a defeat, some including myself by huge margins We didnt lose, we competed, it wasnt pretty and at times it was a bit lucky, but we've had bad luck too so its about time we had some good. Fair play to lambert for that not sure what else we could have done last night in the circumstances. We did not have the personnel to play attacking flowing football without getting hammered All those things are true. Except, IMO, the last bit. But that is football. It isn't all about cost, or quality of players, or injuries. It is about those things and much more, and week after week, month after month, he is being supported in spite of his failure to bring anything else to the club. Every single week it will be possible to make out a case as to why a draw was a good point, or why a defeat was understandable...but to do so requires the fan to embrace the idea that it is impossible for a manager to be in control of the clubs destiny. To embrace, in fact the very negativity which now is clear in the team. It is odd that those who want him gone are often called negative, and complaining, where in fact we are the ones who have a more positive view of what can be achieved. Someone earlier said we wouldn't want to be like Wigan ....we wouldn't be like Wigan !!! With a positive approach lambo could have won a lot of fans over and built huge positive momentum in the club and fan base, and maybe vlaar and delph would enjoy things enough to stay too. His whole approach to every game means this opportunity is lost. You say we didn't have the personnel to play attacking flowing football without getting hammered ? Nobody is asking for that, but there is a halfway house between all out attack and clinging on for dear life every game. There is no evidence anywhere to suggest a positive approach would have brought a lower return than we currently have. And whether he likes it or not people won't keep paying money to watch atrocious football. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 It is a sad indictment of Lambert's tenure that for the 3rd season on the bounce we are hoping that there are 3 teams s****er than us in order for us to stay up rather than looking forward to overhauling those teams above us to finish in mid table mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Never any qualification of the causes of the problems the manager himself has faced. That's not true, everyone knows the problems and acknowledges them. The difference is you feel they excuse everything and others think they don't. That is a massively inaccurate statement. I look at the fact we've played 7 of last seasons top 8 without by far our most important player. I look at a run of fixtures that is packed full of teams who are in bottom half and know that we will have Benteke back for those games. So rather than call for the managers head I'm going to see how the team does in the next 7 games. From which I believe we should get more than 10 points, putting us on 22+ points at half way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 It is odd that those who want him gone are often called negative, and complaining, where in fact we are the ones who have a more positive view of what can be achieved. Excellent point. I think its far more negative to find every reason possible to tell other fans they should accept a point and a shocking performamce. I think this teams capable of more. Instead of finding excuses and hoping things change I'd like to see a change to give us a chance at improving. Because 100 games has not shown much chance of it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 We can't progress because of the financial constraints, the likes of Bradford and Sheffield United have.. oh wait. Doesn't wash me with me sorry. The excuse has worn thin over the years and the football has got worse over the time too. we also beat Cityx2, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool x2 in his time. Sort of kills the predictable moaning cup excuses doesnt it Followed by awful results against those around us or lower than us. Which again highlights his time here, inconsistent and never built on any result. if thats the case then against non top 6 teams from last season we are at 2 wins 3 draws and 1 loss. not too bad is it especially when 2 of them draws was against an on form Southampton and West Ham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 So rather than call for the managers head I'm going to see how the team does in the next 7 games. From which I believe we should get more than 10 points, putting us on 22+ points at half way. And if we don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Constant use of various circumstances to deflect any blame ruins credibility.Let's face it if benteke was fit, you'd blame other injuries, if we had a full team you'd blame finances or tough fixtures. There is always something. And after 100 games to keep using excuses seems complete desperation to ignore the obvious short comings of a paul Lambert Aston villa team. Completely incorrect again. It obvious if Benteke was fit I believe we would have got more points. Just look at the points to games ratio of him in the team as opposed to him out of the team. Which means we'd be in a better position at the end of last season and also in better position this season. Which means less moaning by others. I don't see how disputing my views on this holds any merit. There is vastly too much evidence to support my argument about him in our team as opposed to out of the team and its impact on results. You are trying to pain my views as unequivocally pro Lambert in any and all situations. which of course is wrong. I want to judge him with Benteke in the team for 6+ games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 You seem to want to only judge him when everything is going his way and is perfect. That's not football and that's not life. I'm sure a lot of managers look better when you only judge games where everything was set up right for them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 So rather than call for the managers head I'm going to see how the team does in the next 7 games. From which I believe we should get more than 10 points, putting us on 22+ points at half way. And if we don't? Then my opinion on Lambert will change accordingly. I we go into the final 2 or 3 games of the season with our odds of relegation below 10/1 (which is a 9% chance of being relegated) then I will believe we should be changing manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I want to judge him with Benteke in the team for 6+ games You had his first season when we managed to get as many points as o'learys worst season. Last season benteke started 24 premier league games. Why do you need 6 more? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 So rather than call for the managers head I'm going to see how the team does in the next 7 games. From which I believe we should get more than 10 points, putting us on 22+ points at half way. And if we don't? Does it matter? You seem to be constantly looking for people to change their opinion or give you definite dates or circumstances on when they will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I don't need people to change their opinion, it makes no difference to me. I'm wondering if it does change if we don't do well or does another reason then get used to defend it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 The negative fans are the ones who want to keep Lambert as they see no future for our club. The positive fans are the ones who want the change to bring in a new manager and start a fresh approach. Lambert plays negative because at this stage of his tenure he is fighting for his job, not wanting to lose a game so setting up and coaching a defensive unit, same as Mcleish did, these are his tactics from now on, even with Benteke back, although there may be the odd smash and grab. I don't believe he cares much what the team is capable of attacking wise, just in case they lose by a big margin. because if this indeed did happen in my belief he would be sacked or it certainly would be the begining of the end. Self preservation mode is all Lambert is playing at the moment, its a shrewd manager tatctic to keep there job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 it genuinely feels like there is a group of people who would stand behind Lambert even if we were relegated to League One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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