Richard Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 That Bent sub What in the flying piss is he doing? Did you see that little ball down the left hand side of the area that Bent tried to run onto? He can hardly move. I want to know what he shows in training to be coming on ahead of ever other player bar on that bench bar Given. Any of them would have been more useful. We got a point after our striker ran onto a clearance and the opposition keeper made an error. I hope to see some ambition against Burnley in the battle for 19th. Sanchez needed to come off. Lambert didn't want to bring an attacking midfielder on. Best option was to drop gabby back because of his energy and lack of opportunity up front. We needed to out a striker on as a result. I'm not sure it was the right thing to do, but why the **** is everyone struggling with the concept? Because it's a stick and conveniently it happened just before we conceded. i thought it strange substitution but I do not blame it for us not winning the game, just prior to the SOuthampton goal Bent set Weimann up for a clear winning chance which Weimann fluffed and which everyone is also conveniently forgetting Well, it was actually Gabby, wasn't it? Think Bent took a defender with him that opened the chance up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I really don't understand some criticism. Spurs performance was brilliant, we should have won that game by 2 or more goals and we would have won but for Bentekes sending off. Then at West Ham it was stop the rot at all costs. We simply had to get a point from that game. Then we have Southampton, who have won 9 or their past 10 games. We are missing loads of players and not a man on this site would not have taken a 1-1 before the match. Yet, the moaning goes on and on... If you can explain to me how 3 years on , the last 2 performances were better than what we saw under McLeish, then I might change my critisicm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 He's not going to able to to your satisfaction as you have a view and clearly will be unlikely to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Very good, detailed response but I'm still not grasping why people can't just be a little more positive about the fact that we have taken points against teams in much better form than us. The fact that I am not alone in this must also show you that other people feel the same. Because, why would they? Why would anyone who is staunchly anti-Lambert give any credit to a draw against Southampton? Especially having everyone was posting "after we lose to Southampton and Burnley". Brilliant fans, though, brilliant fans. But on the flip side to that, after 100 games and losing nearly half of them, there are some that don't put any blame on the manager. So why would 2 points in our last 8 games make people think different of him? If we'd lost last night would your opinion have changed? He's not going to able to to your satisfaction as you have a view and clearly will be unlikely to change it. I'm unlikely to change it but I'd be interested to hear why we shouldn't be critical of performances we demanded McLeish was sacked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted November 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted November 25, 2014 I really don't understand some criticism. Spurs performance was brilliant, we should have won that game by 2 or more goals and we would have won but for Bentekes sending off. Then at West Ham it was stop the rot at all costs. We simply had to get a point from that game. Then we have Southampton, who have won 9 or their past 10 games. We are missing loads of players and not a man on this site would not have taken a 1-1 before the match. Yet, the moaning goes on and on... If you can explain to me how 3 years on , the last 2 performances were better than what we saw under McLeish, then I might change my critisicm. I'm actually with CVByrne on this one. We played Everton, QPR and Tottenham back into form. In our last 2 performances we eked out a draw against 2 teams in red hot form: WHU and Southampton. Yes - the performances were hardly great, but stopping the rot was never going to be pretty. What matters now is if that springboards us into the next bunch of "winnable" games.... ... because if we lose those we are truly relegation fodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Very good, detailed response but I'm still not grasping why people can't just be a little more positive about the fact that we have taken points against teams in much better form than us. The fact that I am not alone in this must also show you that other people feel the same. Because, why would they? Why would anyone who is staunchly anti-Lambert give any credit to a draw against Southampton? Especially having everyone was posting "after we lose to Southampton and Burnley". Brilliant fans, though, brilliant fans. Could it be that some people see the bigger picture? Could it be that picking up 2 points and scoring 2 goals in our last 8 games means that some people don't all of a sudden forget the rubbish that has gone on before. Could it be that just because we take a 'backs to the wall' negative approach to games and West Ham and Southampton hadn't got the ability on the day to take their chances Lambert is still a poor manager? Could it be that we are almost certain to continue playing dross and struggling at the s**t end of the table as long as Lambert is in charge? Just a couple of thoughts there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted November 25, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) I think when we get Benteke back and a consistent back 4 again we'll get some good performances and begin to rack up points. I will also refer people to this period of moaning when we record back to back wins or 7 points from 9 before the turn of the year No offence but what is this bollocks supposed to mean? We take 7 points from 3 games then I am sure everyone will be well pleased. Do you really think people are just being negative for the sake of it and get any joy from it. I can only speak for myself I guess but I certainly don’t. I am in my 27th year on the spin as a season ticket holder. I also attend a fair few away games as and when I can. I also actually quite like Lambert. It breaks my heart seeing us serve up the negative dire tripe I am witnessing at the moment and have been for some time. It is also depressing to see so many people have stopped going to VP and last night was not a pretty sight with 17k empty seats. You know what though even as someone who still goes I can fully understand why thousands of fans have had enough and can no longer stomach what is being served up. Bottom line is no one wants to be on here moaning. Every single Villa fan I know now has realistic expectations for this club given the current financial restrictions. The days of expecting a top 6 finish have long gone. I think most now just want us to be reasonably competitive, avoid another relegation battle, serve up some half decent football and at least look to have a go at the opposition. I think given the squad we have now, which Lambert has assembled and should be applauded for, then I think that is something we should be capable of doing. Defensive issues, in terms of personnel, and Benteke being out does not excuse the fact that we simply cannot retain possession beyond a handful of passes and fail to create. You know what though maybe the injuries would be a valid argument if it were not for the fact that even with a full strength side or close to it we have under Lambert still in the main served up tripe. I do though look forward to you referring to my moaning if we do secure 7 points from three games as in terms of Villa and where we are at the moment nothing would give me greater pleasure. Well aside from 9 points of course Edited November 25, 2014 by markavfc40 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Very good, detailed response but I'm still not grasping why people can't just be a little more positive about the fact that we have taken points against teams in much better form than us. The fact that I am not alone in this must also show you that other people feel the same. Because, why would they? Why would anyone who is staunchly anti-Lambert give any credit to a draw against Southampton? Especially having everyone was posting "after we lose to Southampton and Burnley". Brilliant fans, though, brilliant fans. But on the flip side to that, after 100 games and losing nearly half of them, there are some that don't put any blame on the manager. So why would 2 points in our last 8 games make people think different of him? If we'd lost last night would your opinion have changed? He's not going to able to to your satisfaction as you have a view and clearly will be unlikely to change it. I'm unlikely to change it but I'd be interested to hear why we shouldn't be critical of performances we demanded McLeish was sacked for. First bit in bold.m Really, some people do not put ANY blame on the manager? Or they criticise bad decisions and still support him as manager. Pity you cant see the distinction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Curtis Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I really don't see how Delph playing yesterday would have made any difference whatsoever. You realise you pretty much erode any credibility in your opinions when you come up with comments like that. Our player of the season wouldn't have made a difference!! Its immaterial as he will never kick another ball for us. I still go to the games but use the dwindling attendance as an indicator of how people feel about this rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Very good, detailed response but I'm still not grasping why people can't just be a little more positive about the fact that we have taken points against teams in much better form than us. The fact that I am not alone in this must also show you that other people feel the same. Because, why would they? Why would anyone who is staunchly anti-Lambert give any credit to a draw against Southampton? Especially having everyone was posting "after we lose to Southampton and Burnley". Brilliant fans, though, brilliant fans. Could it be that some people see the bigger picture? Could it be that picking up 2 points and scoring 2 goals in our last 8 games means that some people don't all of a sudden forget the rubbish that has gone on before. Could it be that just because we take a 'backs to the wall' negative approach to games and West Ham and Southampton hadn't got the ability on the day to take their chances Lambert is still a poor manager? Could it be that we are almost certain to continue playing dross and struggling at the s**t end of the table as long as Lambert is in charge? Just a couple of thoughts there. There's no bigger picture when you're talking about one result. You've just posted: "Don't let the truth stand in the way of finding a reason to defend Lambert's decisions" Hating for hating's sake is cool though. Good on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I really don't understand some criticism. Spurs performance was brilliant, we should have won that game by 2 or more goals and we would have won but for Bentekes sending off. Then at West Ham it was stop the rot at all costs. We simply had to get a point from that game. Then we have Southampton, who have won 9 or their past 10 games. We are missing loads of players and not a man on this site would not have taken a 1-1 before the match. Yet, the moaning goes on and on... If you can explain to me how 3 years on , the last 2 performances were better than what we saw under McLeish, then I might change my critisicm. I'm actually with CVByrne on this one. We played Everton, QPR and Tottenham back into form. In our last 2 performances we eked out a draw against 2 teams in red hot form: WHU and Southampton. Yes - the performances were hardly great, but stopping the rot was never going to be pretty. What matters now is if that springboards us into the next bunch of "winnable" games.... ... because if we lose those we are truly relegation fodder. We had to stop losing games but I'm not sure getting a couple of draws playing truly awful football is worthy of praise. The complete lack of progress or improvement from McLeish 3 years later deserves criticism IMO. When we see an improvement and progress then he will deserve the credit for it. I'm just not sure he's capable of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) I dont often air my view on this thread because it is one of the more odious parts of the site but for the sake of debate. I don't particularly rate Lambert because I think he has made many many mistakes during his time here. He has also not got us ever really playing consistently with any sense of style beyond "hanging on" which was really what McLeish did and Lambert was supposed to be the refreshing change from that. The exception to that was a perod of about 7 games at end of his first season. The end of last season though I think he really lost the players, they didnt look like they wanted to play for him and he had dead man walking written all over him. I am still amazed he kept his job after all that. With all those things said though I am not sure I would advocate getting rid of him because I dont think we'd get anyone better and in some ways the manager is the least if the issues at our club right now. Until Lerner goes any manager will be running this club with their hands tied behind their backs. So I think he is doing a very average job at a really crap club. Edited November 25, 2014 by villaglint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Very good, detailed response but I'm still not grasping why people can't just be a little more positive about the fact that we have taken points against teams in much better form than us. The fact that I am not alone in this must also show you that other people feel the same. Because, why would they? Why would anyone who is staunchly anti-Lambert give any credit to a draw against Southampton? Especially having everyone was posting "after we lose to Southampton and Burnley". Brilliant fans, though, brilliant fans. But on the flip side to that, after 100 games and losing nearly half of them, there are some that don't put any blame on the manager. So why would 2 points in our last 8 games make people think different of him? If we'd lost last night would your opinion have changed? He's not going to able to to your satisfaction as you have a view and clearly will be unlikely to change it. I'm unlikely to change it but I'd be interested to hear why we shouldn't be critical of performances we demanded McLeish was sacked for. First bit in bold.m Really, some people do not put ANY blame on the manager? Or they criticise bad decisions and still support him as manager. Pity you cant see the distinction I don't think its a lot but there does seem to be a few that lay no blame on the manager for what's been a poor 2 and a half seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Very good, detailed response but I'm still not grasping why people can't just be a little more positive about the fact that we have taken points against teams in much better form than us. The fact that I am not alone in this must also show you that other people feel the same. Because, why would they? Why would anyone who is staunchly anti-Lambert give any credit to a draw against Southampton? Especially having everyone was posting "after we lose to Southampton and Burnley". Brilliant fans, though, brilliant fans. Could it be that some people see the bigger picture? Could it be that picking up 2 points and scoring 2 goals in our last 8 games means that some people don't all of a sudden forget the rubbish that has gone on before. Could it be that just because we take a 'backs to the wall' negative approach to games and West Ham and Southampton hadn't got the ability on the day to take their chances Lambert is still a poor manager? Could it be that we are almost certain to continue playing dross and struggling at the s**t end of the table as long as Lambert is in charge? Just a couple of thoughts there. There's no bigger picture when you're talking about one result. You've just posted: "Don't let the truth stand in the way of finding a reason to defend Lambert's decisions" Hating for hating's sake is cool though. Good on you. There is a bigger picture. Unlike some I don't get carried away with one result. I don't 'hate' Lambert I just don't believe that he is a very good manager and I believe he is dragging us down. There is a difference you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I think when we get Benteke back and a consistent back 4 again we'll get some good performances and begin to rack up points. I will also refer people to this period of moaning when we record back to back wins or 7 points from 9 before the turn of the year No offence but what is this bollocks supposed to mean? We take 7 points from 3 games then I am sure everyone will be well pleased. Do you really think people are just being negative for the sake of it and get any joy from it. I can only speak for myself I guess but I certainly don’t. I am in my 27th year on the spin as a season ticket holder. I also attend a fair few away games as and when I can. I also actually quite like Lambert. It breaks my heart seeing us serve up the negative dire tripe I am witnessing at the moment and have been for some time. It is also depressing to see so many people have stopped going to VP and last night was not a pretty site with 17k empty seats. You know what though even as someone who still goes I can fully understand why thousands of fans have had enough and can no longer stomach what is being served up. Bottom line is no one wants to be on here moaning. Every single Vila fan I know now has realistic expectations for this club given the current financial restrictions. The days of expecting a top 6 finish have long gone. I think most now just want us to be reasonably competitive, avoid another relegation battle, serve up some half decent football and at least look to have a go at the opposition. I think given the squad we have now, which Lambert has assembled and should be applauded for, then I think that is something we should be capable of doing. Defensive issues, in terms of personnel, and Benteke being out does not excuse the fact that we simply cannot retain possession beyond a handful of passes and fail to create. You know what though maybe the injuries would be a valid argument if it were not for the fact that even with a full strength side or close to it we have under Lambert still in the main served up tripe. I do though look forward to you referring to my moaning if we do secure 7 points from three games as in terms of Villa and where we are at the moment nothing would give me greater pleasure. Well aside from 9 points of course Mark I salute you for your sensible and well constructed arguments! I think our full strength side could play a lot better under a decent manager! Benteke would be 3 times the player he is if his main source of supply was a midfielder and not Guzan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 DCjonah, you just cant be that black and white I'm afraid. There are shades of grey. No one , not one person, would not be critical of some of the decisions Paul has made since he has been here. He is not perfect, show me the manager who is However, you have to look wider than that and understand the circumstances in which he has been working, not just money but also backrrom staff, injuries, other teams competing against us, new ceo, players who he tooka chance on which is what he had to do with what he was given not paying off etc etc etc Blame him for the last two and half years? we were declining for 2 and a half years before that to be honest and he has had to try and correct that. He has no magic wand. So blame him for some of his managerial decisions fair enough, totally blame him for 2 and a half years which is what your post suggests? No no way for me 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Very good, detailed response but I'm still not grasping why people can't just be a little more positive about the fact that we have taken points against teams in much better form than us. The fact that I am not alone in this must also show you that other people feel the same. Because, why would they? Why would anyone who is staunchly anti-Lambert give any credit to a draw against Southampton? Especially having everyone was posting "after we lose to Southampton and Burnley". Brilliant fans, though, brilliant fans. Could it be that some people see the bigger picture? Could it be that picking up 2 points and scoring 2 goals in our last 8 games means that some people don't all of a sudden forget the rubbish that has gone on before. Could it be that just because we take a 'backs to the wall' negative approach to games and West Ham and Southampton hadn't got the ability on the day to take their chances Lambert is still a poor manager? Could it be that we are almost certain to continue playing dross and struggling at the s**t end of the table as long as Lambert is in charge? Just a couple of thoughts there. There's no bigger picture when you're talking about one result. You've just posted: "Don't let the truth stand in the way of finding a reason to defend Lambert's decisions" Hating for hating's sake is cool though. Good on you. There is a bigger picture. Unlike some I don't get carried away with one result. I don't 'hate' Lambert I just don't believe that he is a very good manager and I believe he is dragging us down. There is a difference you know. It's not even a Lambert thing. A draw against Southampton was a good result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Here's a challenge: Take Lambert's total spend. Subtract the cost of the players who've picked up long term injuries. Divide by the number of seasons he's been here. Then tell me how Lambert is supposed to perform better than his predecessor. You're allowed to ignore the fact that the wage bill is now one of the lowest in the league (even though that's nearly always the best statistical indicator of how a team will perform). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 DCjonah, you just cant be that black and white I'm afraid. There are shades of grey. No one , not one person, would not be critical of some of the decisions Paul has made since he has been here. He is not perfect, show me the manager who is However, you have to look wider than that and understand the circumstances in which he has been working, not just money but also backrrom staff, injuries, other teams competing against us, new ceo, players who he tooka chance on which is what he had to do with what he was given not paying off etc etc etc Blame him for the last two and half years? we were declining for 2 and a half years before that to be honest and he has had to try and correct that. He has no magic wand. So blame him for some of his managerial decisions fair enough, totally blame him for 2 and a half years which is what your post suggests? No no way for me Maybe my post comes across too anti Lambert. I would never lay the sole blame on him. The decisions made by the owner before his appointment were poor and the backing he has received as manager of Aston villa has been laughable. But for me that doesn't excuse him. There has been no improvement or progress from McLeish. He has to take his fair share of the blame for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Here's a challenge: Take Lambert's total spend. Subtract the cost of the players who've picked up long term injuries. Divide by the number of seasons he's been here. Then tell me how Lambert is supposed to perform better than his predecessor. You're allowed to ignore the fact that the wage bill is now one of the lowest in the league (even though that's nearly always the best statistical indicator of how a team will perform). ten gold stars for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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