Paul Lambert

[Brumstopdogs]

He got,what many would agree, a worse squad in Palace comfortably above us so I think he would have got our group of players performing better than Lambert managed to.

[Big_John_10]

I think what TRO is trying to challenge is the ridiculous notion that different managers would achieve exactly the same results with the same resources as is implied by those who say things like "no other manager could have done any better than Lambert" etc.

Only nobody has implied this.

Over the last two years its been implied many times that no manager could have done better

But it hasn't, however it has been implied that it is unlikely that any manager Lerner/Faulkner would realistically hire instead of Lambert could do better.

Once again, I don't really understand what is trying to be achieved by constantly bringing up what has been said over the last two years by other posters. Why does it matter? Genuinely don't understand why the argument is still going now.

Because someone said its never been implied and it has.

[onmeedson]

Seems all the blues fans you talk to want lambert to stay, pullis would not have assembled this squad and even then  could have got more points out of this bunch of misfits.

[HanoiVillan]

Lambert hasn't been a disaster, we're still in the Premier League, he did that two years running on a small budget. The transfer funds issue is not the most constraining issue he had to deal with, it was wage restraints which stopped us getting better players in on loan. Everton got Barry, we got Holt. Large wage differences between those two I imagine. 

 

However, Lambert's tactics have been one-dimensional, too easy to work out, his man-management has been questionable (although we don't know who was actually making the decisions re: The Bomb Squad), his choice of Culverhouse & Karva turned out to be very flawed indeed and he collected less points this season than last with what, on paper, looks like a better squad. 

 

So I'll put a question out there. Do you think the same squad would have done better, with less fuss, if we'd had Tony Pullis in charge, for instance? 

IMO the answer is yes. 

 

In what he achieves relative to budget, Pulis is one of the best managers in the division, so undoubtedly yes. The football might not be exciting, but the points would be on the board. 

[Mantis]

Seems all the blues fans you talk to want lambert to stay, pullis would not have assembled this squad and even then  could have got more points out of this bunch of misfits.

Nobody gives a **** what those inbreds think.

[onmeedson]

why do flies get drawn to a fly trap. 

[TRO]

 

I think what TRO is trying to challenge is the ridiculous notion that different managers would achieve exactly the same results with the same resources as is implied by those who say things like "no other manager could have done any better than Lambert" etc.

 

Only nobody has implied this.

 

 

I'll have to brush up on my explanation skills....however Isa got it.

[TRO]

 pullis would not have assembled this squad and even then  could have got more points out of this bunch of misfits.

 

i agree, but no tot sure i would want him as manager in the long term.. short terms yes.

Edited May 25, 2014 by TRO

[LondonLax]

When did Tony Pulis become a managerial god?

He had a good run with Palace for a couple of months, great. You need to wait a bit longer than that to judge him as a genius.

[Cliffy Biro]

I really hate seeing Pulis as some sort of figure every manager should copy, he organised and motivated a team credit for that but hes not a great manager and i hate seeing him as the example everyone points too.

 

I know theres people here who like and defend Lambert but out of interested does anyone genuinely think hes done a good job?

[LondonLax]

I really hate seeing Pulis as some sort of figure every manager should copy, he organised and motivated a team credit for that but hes not a great manager and i hate seeing him as the example everyone points too.

I know theres people here who like and defend Lambert but out of interested does anyone genuinely think hes done a good job?

I didn't buy into the Lambert hype when he arrived but at the same time I haven't jumped in with the crowd asking him to leave.

My opinion is still the same, he is a decent young manager and is much of a muchness with any other manager we'd be looking at attracting. We are not going to sack him and find the next Simione so I'm in favour of keeping him on as he knows the squad and provides continuity.

Edited May 25, 2014 by LondonLax

[TRO]

Undoubtedly others could have done better. But after we missed out on Martinez I think Lambert was high on everyone's list. It's no good really saying in hindsight Lerner made the wrong choice. Lambert was the one a lot of fans wanted.

 

Thats fair comment, I was one over the moon, when we signed Martin O'Neill, but events changed my mind,....events unfold, performances are there for all to see as well as results and a picture starts to develop.

 

The six million dollar question is how long do you run with it before a decision is made and action is taken....some clubs act too quickly, some clubs drag their feet.....Man U obviously don't hang around rightfully or wrongfully.

 

We are in Limbo no doubt, with the ownership, but my point is if Lerner had no intention of selling Lambert would still be there, based on the criteria of complyling with  the austerity programme ,not necessarily with the business of team development.

 

Some of us are lauding a manager for dubious reasons.

 

Have we got a manager who is capable of developing the football side of the club or have we got a manager that can cut wage bills and keep us up by our fingernails.

 

......its your call

Edited May 25, 2014 by TRO

[Isa]

I think what TRO is trying to challenge is the ridiculous notion that different managers would achieve exactly the same results with the same resources as is implied by those who say things like "no other manager could have done any better than Lambert" etc.

 

Only nobody has implied this.

Actually many have and the quoted line has been rolled out time-and-again throughout the season.

[TRO]

When did Tony Pulis become a managerial god?

He had a good run with Palace for a couple of months, great. You need to wait a bit longer than that to judge him as a genius.

 

some times it is very difficult to get your point across, when analysing/appraising managers.

 

some including me are using him to show that despite keep defaulting to personnel resources.....managers alone with their talent can make a difference.

 

I would suspect focusing on the names that folk use to make their point is missing the overall point.....its purely a datum point for trying to explaining the position.

 

 

ps Diego Simeone with his inferior squad to Real madrid had achieved so much and for long periods in the Euro Final and was in some kind of control, albeit dogged/resilient control as opposed to outright flair....much the same as us in our Final, only when the steam of AM dry up did the money players of RM talent tell....He has created an environment that in some way partially negates the mega millions of the bigger teams.....Its largely down to him. Just like it was down to Brian Clough at Forest all those years ago and Jose @Porto

 

pps what we have to do is recognise we are going nowhere and deal with it.

Edited May 25, 2014 by TRO

[TRO]

 

I really hate seeing Pulis as some sort of figure every manager should copy, he organised and motivated a team credit for that but hes not a great manager and i hate seeing him as the example everyone points too.

I know theres people here who like and defend Lambert but out of interested does anyone genuinely think hes done a good job?

I didn't buy into the Lambert hype when he arrived but at the same time I haven't jumped in with the crowd asking him to leave.

My opinion is still the same, he is a decent young manager and is much of a muchness with any other manager we'd be looking at attracting. We are not going to sack him and find the next Simione so I'm in favour of keeping him on as he knows the squad and provides continuity.

 

 

....continuity of what exactly?

[TRO]

 

I really hate seeing Pulis as some sort of figure every manager should copy, he organised and motivated a team credit for that but hes not a great manager and i hate seeing him as the example everyone points too.

I know theres people here who like and defend Lambert but out of interested does anyone genuinely think hes done a good job?

. We are not going to sack him and find the next Simione 

 

 

I can think of many teams we compete against in a very competitive league..... would find that, difficult to concur with.

 

it is difficult to find that person, but you can have a bloody good go.

 

I just feel as unintentional as i guess you made it .....but it sounds a tad defeatist to me.

[momo]

 

When did Tony Pulis become a managerial god?

He had a good run with Palace for a couple of months, great. You need to wait a bit longer than that to judge him as a genius.

 

some times it is very difficult to get your point across, when analysing/appraising managers.

 

some including me are using him to show that despite keep defaulting to personnel resources.....managers alone with their talent can make a difference.

 

I would suspect focusing on the names that folk use to make their point is missing the overall point.....its purely a datum point for trying to explaining the position.

 

 

ps Diego Simone with his inferior squad to Real madrid had achieved so much and for long periods in the Euro Final and was in some kind of control, albeit dogged/resilient control as opposed to outright flair....much the same as us in our Final, only when the steam of AM dry up did the money players of RM talent tell....He has created an environment that in some way partially negates the mega millions of the bigger teams.....Its largely down to him. Just like it was down to Brian Clough at Forest all those years ago and Jose @Porto

 

pps what we have to do is recognise we are going nowhere and deal with it.

 

Yes, I bet David Villa has low salaries at Atletico... Maybe Lambert can get a striker on his way to retirement to accept 10k a week... Wait, getting good players without resale value he can't do...Hmmm...What about a supertalent that has no caps for his national team from outside the EU?? oh, no...we can't because the British immigration office doesn't allow British clubs to register a player like that for work in Britain. Oh...strange that we can't do what Atletico and Porto are doing. Maybe we can do like Chelsea, buy a bunch of talents from around the world and loan them out...but wait, Villa can't afford to sandwich an AMC in the team because the club is cheap and poor. The only thing that is free, is complaining.

Edited May 25, 2014 by momo

[TRO]

 

 

I think what TRO is trying to challenge is the ridiculous notion that different managers would achieve exactly the same results with the same resources as is implied by those who say things like "no other manager could have done any better than Lambert" etc.

 absolutely spot on.

 

I'm tying to say we settle too easily for second best and don't search for a Diego Simone of our own like we did with Saunders and Barton.

Sorry TRO totally disagree. I cannot see how you can claim we settle "for second best" Martinez turned us down and Lambert was the fans choice.

As regards the distant past; as much as I respect Tony Barton's memory, it is ludicrous to use him as an example, he inherited Saunders team. He will always be a legend but few will claim he was an exceptional manager.

As for Saunders. He was a relatively unknown quantity. At the time of his appointment, most fans were unimpressed and he was not perceived as "the best". Sorry but your argument doesn't make sense.

 

 

Mike, In respect of the Tony Barton comment he was sacked for finishing 8th.....We was struggling in the league when he took over in the February if my memory serves me correctly and turned things around and went on 12 moths later to win the Cup against all odds.....I don't think in all honesty he had the time to have made his name in the same way Ron did.

 

I know you have respect for him, but having met him and had the privilege of speaking to him for more than an hour one night after a European friendly....He just completely left me gobsmacked with his knowledge of the game and his analyse of the players of the day.

 

Ron Saunders had the luxury of Barton working with him, Tony Barton did not have the same luxury of having Ron working with him, if you get what I mean.

 

If Aston Villa had of been relegated that season Barton took over before winning the Cup..... would it have been Rons's team or Tony's team? that went down.

 

Make no mistake, Tony Barton had a different skill set to Ron, but equally was the main instrument in finding all our gems with Roy McLaren bringing them on at BMH....Only time would have told if he could have captured the consistency that would have gained him the reputation Ron had.

 

The only man to underestimate Tony Barton was HDE and we (fans) paid the price.....another cock up in the Great History

[TRO]

 

 

When did Tony Pulis become a managerial god?

He had a good run with Palace for a couple of months, great. You need to wait a bit longer than that to judge him as a genius.

 

some times it is very difficult to get your point across, when analysing/appraising managers.

 

some including me are using him to show that despite keep defaulting to personnel resources.....managers alone with their talent can make a difference.

 

I would suspect focusing on the names that folk use to make their point is missing the overall point.....its purely a datum point for trying to explaining the position.

 

 

ps Diego Simone with his inferior squad to Real madrid had achieved so much and for long periods in the Euro Final and was in some kind of control, albeit dogged/resilient control as opposed to outright flair....much the same as us in our Final, only when the steam of AM dry up did the money players of RM talent tell....He has created an environment that in some way partially negates the mega millions of the bigger teams.....Its largely down to him. Just like it was down to Brian Clough at Forest all those years ago and Jose @Porto

 

pps what we have to do is recognise we are going nowhere and deal with it.

 

Yes, I bet David Villa has low salaries at Atletico... Maybe Lambert can get a striker on his way to retirement to accept 10k a week... Wait, getting good players without resale value he can't do...Hmmm...What about a supertalent that has no caps for his national team from outside the EU?? oh, no...we can't because the British immigration office doesn't allow British clubs to register a player like that for work in Britain. Oh...strange that we can't do what Atletico and Porto are doing. Maybe we can do like Chelsea, buy a bunch of talents from around the world and loan them out...but wait, Villa can't afford to sandwich an AMC in the team because the club is cheap and poor. The only thing that is free, is complaining.

 

yawn....lets just accept the status quo then and close down the site.

Edited May 25, 2014 by TRO

[sharkyvilla]

I really hate seeing Pulis as some sort of figure every manager should copy, he organised and motivated a team credit for that but hes not a great manager and i hate seeing him as the example everyone points too.

 

I know theres people here who like and defend Lambert but out of interested does anyone genuinely think hes done a good job?

Pulis is a good manager in the same way Allardyce is. He'll organise and keep a team up but within 18 months you will absolutely hate him being manager of your club. I can understand if people dislike Lambert and think he's useless but they would be giving Pulis and a few others just as much stick I can guarantee it.