Paul Lambert

[shaggy]

Don't think anyone is saying that habitual sacking of managers is going to in some way make us get better results.

What some are saying though is that we haven't yet found the right manager to stick with long term and until we do we must not award failure with new contracts.

If we wanted stability at all costs then should we have stood by Mcleish?

[bobzy]

Don't think anyone is saying that habitual sacking of managers is going to in some way make us get better results.

What some are saying though is that we haven't yet found the right manager to stick with long term and until we do we must not award failure with new contracts.

If we wanted stability at all costs then should we have stood by Mcleish?

 

Personally, I'd have given McLeish more than one season.  I'm not saying it would've gone well necessarily, but I always think a manager deserves longer than 12 months to implement anything at all.

 

You say we "haven't yet found the right manager to stick with long term" - I can't even remember the last time we had a manager in charge for more than 4 years?  No-one gets a chance to prove themselves long term; nature of the beast.

[PieFacE]

Sacking him makes even less sense

On the assumption that new owners are coming in. Do you still believe this?

[DelboyVilla]

 

Don't think anyone is saying that habitual sacking of managers is going to in some way make us get better results.

What some are saying though is that we haven't yet found the right manager to stick with long term and until we do we must not award failure with new contracts.

If we wanted stability at all costs then should we have stood by Mcleish?

 

Personally, I'd have given McLeish more than one season.  I'm not saying it would've gone well necessarily, but I always think a manager deserves longer than 12 months to implement anything at all.

 

You say we "haven't yet found the right manager to stick with long term" - I can't even remember the last time we had a manager in charge for more than 4 years?  No-one gets a chance to prove themselves long term; nature of the beast.

 

Would he have done worse than Lambert? On paper probably not!

[TrentVilla]

 

Sacking him makes even less sense

On the assumption that new owners are coming in. Do you still believe this?

 

 

That is a pretty big assumption as it currently stands.

 

I think all you can do is comment on how things currently stand and on that basis I agree with Richard.

[PieFacE]

 

 

Sacking him makes even less sense

On the assumption that new owners are coming in. Do you still believe this?

 

 

That is a pretty big assumption as it currently stands.

 

I think all you can do is comment on how things currently stand and on that basis I agree with Richard.

 

And I also agree if Lerner stays then so should Lambert. 

[Richard]

Interesting viewpoint shaggy

 

But what comes first?  Stability or success? Finding a manager to stick with because he'll bring us success or having the success from a manager and then sticking with him?

 

I haven't posted as much on here recently as ,  frankly,  it gets really boring having our arses handed to us each week then coming on here arguing the toss with strangers about what our problems are.  People have,  largely,  entrenched views and will either stick to them or argue the toss anyway as they dont like someone who has an alternate viewpoint.  Result,  we still get our arses handed to us each week.

 

Just because we are a big club,  and we are huge, and just because we have won things in the past,  and we have won more than most does not mean that that should and will continue regardless.  It takes a big investment in the modern game.  Investment we haven't had for around 4 years now.

 

We have spent on promising,  but not quite right,  on players with a point to prove,  on cheap foreign talent.  I'm afraid when you rebuild to that level and with such little finance,  then you are likely to struggle for a few years.  But where then is the sense of sacking the manager and starting all over again?  For someone else to get up to speed on the playing staff,  on what is required,  on the club itself.?

 

I'd argue we'd never get anything with that.  I'm not sure what fans expected this year.  Top 6 pushing?  maybe not .  Top half definitely and I was one of those thinking if we had a fair wind and everyone working top notch we could get it.  The fact that we haven't been anywhere near top of our game for the last two months is not good enough.  I accept that and I'm sure the management does to.  But I just think when you have a squad like ours they all have to be top notch most of the time or else you will struggle.  

 

Constantly changing the manager because we are not performing as some fans would expect us to perform will get us nowhere.  Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement.  For me it is the right manager,  we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year,  and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.  But I think Lambert deserves another crack,  he deserves to see this through and more importantly as he has done hard work he deserves to have the financial clout to get the playing staff better

[Richard]

 

Sacking him makes even less sense

On the assumption that new owners are coming in. Do you still believe this?

 

IF we get new owners,  and it is an if for me,  I absolutely believe that we should stick with lambert

[bose]

If things are going to stay the same (I highly doubt it) then there would be no sense at all in sacking Lambert but I doubt he would want to work a third season under the same restrictions.

 

If we get a new owner I think it's open to debate whether Lambert should stay or not. Personally I would like to see him get a chance to sign some real players with proper backing but I know I'm probably in the minority here.

[Big_John_10]

Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement. For me it is the right manager, we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year, and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.

You've made our point for us in that paragraph. There is no improvement, there is no real progress and on that basis he doesn't deserve more time or more money.

[Richard]

 

Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement. For me it is the right manager, we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year, and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.

You've made our point for us in that paragraph. There is no improvement, there is no real progress and on that basis he doesn't deserve more time or more money.

 

Well if i would have said what you have suggested I did I can see why you would think that.  The fact that I have not said what you have suggested sort of negates the rest of your post for me.

[DelboyVilla]

 

Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement. For me it is the right manager, we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year, and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.

You've made our point for us in that paragraph. There is no improvement, there is no real progress and on that basis he doesn't deserve more time or more money.

 

I agree too many mistakes.

 

The strange goings on with the coaching staff was the final nail in the coffin for me. I really think that Lambert didn't have a clue what was going on in the first team because he had become so detached and reliant on C&K. I don't see what he was doing?

[Big_John_10]

Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement. For me it is the right manager, we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year, and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.

You've made our point for us in that paragraph. There is no improvement, there is no real progress and on that basis he doesn't deserve more time or more money.

Well if i would have said what you have suggested I did I can see why you would think that. The fact that I have not said what you have suggested sort of negates the rest of your post for me.

So where's the progress and improvement? Results? Points? League table? Performances?

2 years and really not much different to what he inherited.

[shaggy]

Interesting viewpoint shaggy

 

But what comes first?  Stability or success? Finding a manager to stick with because he'll bring us success or having the success from a manager and then sticking with him?

 

I haven't posted as much on here recently as ,  frankly,  it gets really boring having our arses handed to us each week then coming on here arguing the toss with strangers about what our problems are.  People have,  largely,  entrenched views and will either stick to them or argue the toss anyway as they dont like someone who has an alternate viewpoint.  Result,  we still get our arses handed to us each week.

 

Just because we are a big club,  and we are huge, and just because we have won things in the past,  and we have won more than most does not mean that that should and will continue regardless.  It takes a big investment in the modern game.  Investment we haven't had for around 4 years now.

 

We have spent on promising,  but not quite right,  on players with a point to prove,  on cheap foreign talent.  I'm afraid when you rebuild to that level and with such little finance,  then you are likely to struggle for a few years.  But where then is the sense of sacking the manager and starting all over again?  For someone else to get up to speed on the playing staff,  on what is required,  on the club itself.?

 

I'd argue we'd never get anything with that.  I'm not sure what fans expected this year.  Top 6 pushing?  maybe not .  Top half definitely and I was one of those thinking if we had a fair wind and everyone working top notch we could get it.  The fact that we haven't been anywhere near top of our game for the last two months is not good enough.  I accept that and I'm sure the management does to.  But I just think when you have a squad like ours they all have to be top notch most of the time or else you will struggle.  

 

Constantly changing the manager because we are not performing as some fans would expect us to perform will get us nowhere.  Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement.  For me it is the right manager,  we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year,  and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.  But I think Lambert deserves another crack,  he deserves to see this through and more importantly as he has done hard work he deserves to have the financial clout to get the playing staff better

Very good post mate and I wish I had your faith and convictions. I want you to be right, I really do but I guess only Randy knows whether Lambert will be given another season.

[villa-revolution]

 

 

 

Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement. For me it is the right manager, we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year, and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.

You've made our point for us in that paragraph. There is no improvement, there is no real progress and on that basis he doesn't deserve more time or more money.

Well if i would have said what you have suggested I did I can see why you would think that. The fact that I have not said what you have suggested sort of negates the rest of your post for me.

So where's the progress and improvement? Results? Points? League table? Performances?

2 years and really not much different to what he inherited.

 

 

The turn around is not obviously discernible. We are being slowly turned around both on & off the pitch & both Lerner & Lambert have been instrumental in arresting this decline. The financial position is far more stable & if rumours are to be believed a take over is imminent.

 

So to answer your question the progress & improvement is a subtle one, not immediately tangible, but it is comprehensible as long as you grasp it  & is there for all to see.

 

The whole Club has come through a really difficult but necessary remedial period.

 

I like to think we are now, all of us, (This Board, the next board, The Manager, The players & the fans) in a much stronger position now to finally propel this fantastic Club onwards & upwards.

 

I like to feel & have reason to believe that the worst is over.

[Richard]

 

 

 

Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement. For me it is the right manager, we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year, and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.

You've made our point for us in that paragraph. There is no improvement, there is no real progress and on that basis he doesn't deserve more time or more money.

Well if i would have said what you have suggested I did I can see why you would think that. The fact that I have not said what you have suggested sort of negates the rest of your post for me.

So where's the progress and improvement? Results? Points? League table? Performances?

2 years and really not much different to what he inherited.

 

You've asked the question and I'll give an answer you may not like it but I'll give it anyway!

 

1. We have not conceeded as many goals.  Even if we lose 10-0 to man citeh as some are saying I doubt we'll conceed as many

2. We have not had record defeats as we did last year

3. We have had more enjoyable results against the top teams 

4. The young players are another year older and another year more experienced

 

 

Admittedly not many but for me there are some and I guess it's how you want to take it.  For each of mine you could easily come up with the opposing viewpoint and I accept that but I guess I'm choosing not to look at things too negatively.

 

For instance we have had major injuries this year to contend with that we didnt last year to our best player,  his potential replacement (big summer signing) and the summer defensive signing that everyone was thinking was going to be huge for us so we have had to cope with these as well

[DelboyVilla]

 

 

 

 

Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement. For me it is the right manager, we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year, and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.

You've made our point for us in that paragraph. There is no improvement, there is no real progress and on that basis he doesn't deserve more time or more money.

Well if i would have said what you have suggested I did I can see why you would think that. The fact that I have not said what you have suggested sort of negates the rest of your post for me.

So where's the progress and improvement? Results? Points? League table? Performances?

2 years and really not much different to what he inherited.

 

 

The turn around is not obviously discernible. We are being slowly turned around both on & off the pitch & both Lerner & Lambert have been instrumental in arresting this decline. The financial position is far more stable & if rumours are to be believed a take over is imminent.

 

So to answer your question the progress & improvement is a subtle one, not immediately tangible, but it is comprehensible as long as you grasp it  & is there for all to see.

 

The whole Club has come through a really difficult but necessary remedial period.

 

I like to think we are now, all of us, (This Board, the next board, The Manager, The players & the fans) in a much stronger position now to finally propel this fantastic Club onwards & upwards.

 

I like to feel & have reason to believe that the worst is over.

 

 

So the improvement is so subtle that it can't be seen? I've heard it all now?

Where are these tangible improvements? On the pitch? How? style is non-existent, results are similar to last year and the year before? Off the pitch? The only reason turnover will be up this year is because all sides are getting more money from TV. It's not some clever marketing ploy on behave of the club?  

 

Standing still is moving backwards in this league and at best we have stood still.

 

I really hope we do get a new owner and manager sooner rather than later for the good of the club!

[TrentVilla]

 

 

 

Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement. For me it is the right manager, we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year, and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.

You've made our point for us in that paragraph. There is no improvement, there is no real progress and on that basis he doesn't deserve more time or more money.

Well if i would have said what you have suggested I did I can see why you would think that. The fact that I have not said what you have suggested sort of negates the rest of your post for me.

So where's the progress and improvement? Results? Points? League table? Performances?

2 years and really not much different to what he inherited.

 

 

Its massively different to what he inherited.

 

We had an unsustainable wage bill, under performing 'stars' on huge wages and a squad that was getting older and declining.

 

We now have a lower wage bill in real terms now despite the old figures in the last accounts. We have a young squad, of mixed abilities which means individual improvement in players is at least possible rather than decline. We have players who we won't lose an absolute fortune on if we let them go or let their contracts expired unlike just about every player that has left in the last 4 years.

 

We have now a base from which the club could be potentially attractive to a new owner or which might give the current one confidence to invest a little more moving forward.

 

What Lambert has now is worlds apart from what he inherited when he walked in the door even if the results, points or league finishes aren't but that is only part of the picture.

 

Ultimately football is a results business and our results haven't been good enough for many fans, myself included but I think it is wrong to dismiss other factors when assessing a managers performance.

 

Lerner himself said Lambert has done what was asked of him, which is as good as admitting that his brief was stay up, cut costs and rebuild and not necessarily in that order or with equal emphasis.

 

To expect much progress in terms of results, performances and league position in these circumstances and in the context of other clubs relative spending is, in my humble opinion optimistic at best but perhaps even a little unrealistic.

[hippo]

 

 

Sure it has to be the right manager and we have to see signs of improvement. For me it is the right manager, we may not seen as many signs of improvement this year, and coming on the back of the second half of the season last season that is a huge disappointment.

You've made our point for us in that paragraph. There is no improvement, there is no real progress and on that basis he doesn't deserve more time or more money.

 

I agree too many mistakes.

 

The strange goings on with the coaching staff was the final nail in the coffin for me. I really think that Lambert didn't have a clue what was going on in the first team because he had become so detached and reliant on C&K. I don't see what he was doing?

 

 

He handled the coaching thing poorly.

 

The story I have been told  is that a secret film was presented of antics at the training ground. Faulkner summoned Lambert, who dismissed them as nothing untoward but he would have words with those concerned, this response was felt to be to soft by some of the players, and complaints went from players to Faulkner - back to Lambert - this went on for a couple of weeks. Then Faulkner put his foot down and told Lambert to at the very least suspend the staff. It is not known who was responsible for the original video recording.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I've seen nothing to suggest Lambert that is up to the job.

Edited May 6, 2014 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner