Are the Beatles over-rated?

[8pints]

To be fair, I do like the Beatles songs where they do those vocal harmonies.

[StefanAVFC]

move the hat to the other side?

 

anyway, it's a digression

 

personally, I prefer The Small Faces, but I can see the debt they owe, but I still prefer them 

 

but it's all gravy, good music is good music

 

That would be so odd. As Ginko confirmed, I think the footedness is a bit thing.

[bickster]

The long long list from Drat quoting lots of people influenced by the Beatles (which i won't quote).

 

As far as i can tell, it basically boils down to only Oasis from the last 20 years.

 

and a couple of people who admired John Lennon as a person rather than The Beatles music.

 

Either you didn't fully read the quotes and only cherry-picked the one's that suit or you're being intentionally ridiculous.

Might I suggest you haven't read them yourself!

[Morpheus]

And anyway, if you're being that nitpicky, then one could argue that without Epstein then Martin wouldn't be in the picture either. But I'm talking about The Beatles as a whole package as being hugely influential in many ways.

Not being 'nitpicky' at all.

 

Epstein discovered the Beatles, changed the way they looked from leather to suits but he had nothing to do with how the Beatles sounded or indeed in formulating that sound which was your original point concerning George Martin.

[MakemineVanilla]

The one thing I can never understand is why there is so much hostility towards McCartney.

 

I can understand the disappointment at some of his early post-Beatles output but the obsession with trying to devalue his contribution to the Beatles is beyond me because he really knew how to write a song and he was probably the most talented musician of the four (he even played drums).

 

I assume that it can only be about the politics of pop appreciation and that Lennon's aggressive teddy-boy image is mistaken for authenticity, that chimerical beast which is often confused with other things.

[bickster]

they introduced sampling to the mainstream, first use of feedback on a recording...

Here we go again more utter nonsense.

Did the Beatles invent time travel too?

[drat01]

Stefan is right in a fashion. The Beatles were certainly one of the first exponents of sampling on tracks that were in the mainstream. And many people did follow on from their success on certain tracks

[StefanAVFC]

Exactly. I didn't out rightly say 'they were the first to sample', just that before the Beatles, the public were not familiar with the concept.

With regards to intentional use of feedback. They were the first to use it on a recording.

[drat01]

http://www.cybermidi.com/news/index.php/practical-midi/announcements/an-amazing-list-of-beatle-firsts

 

I was a teenager in the sixties so naturally I’d have a fascination with The Beatles, more so than, let’s say, someone ten to fifteen years younger than myself. Occasionally I’ll run into one of these people and the conversation will roll around to The Beatles and their contributions to the music scene. They’ll usually say something about how The Beatles were overrated or hyped beyond reality or some other comment meant to minimize the accomplishments of these lads from Liverpool. Well, being the Beatle enthusiast that I am, this is one topic where I can debate intelligently with just about anyone. Just so we can put this subject to rest once and for all, I’ll present this column to all you naysayers so you will have the facts before you try to put down the most successful rock group of all time. For example…

The Beatles were the first band to take their concerts from theaters to stadiums. Their first venture into this area was at New York’s Shea Stadium with more than 50,000 fans attending.

The Beatles had stopped touring in 1966. To meet demands for concerts, they opted to send out videos, inventing the first music videos. Their first videos were of “Paperback Writer” and “Rain” back in 1965. They were also first to issue standard videos in color. They also created the first album video with Magical Mystery Tour in 1967.

The first time a satellite was ever used to broadcast anything worldwide was for The Beatles’ live performance of “All You Need Is Love,” in 1968. The Beatles were putting the finishing touches on their “Sgt. Peppers” album when they were invited to be featured in “Our World,” the first television program transmitted live around the world via satellite. The 125-minute program would be broadcast to 26 countries. The Beatles were asked to write a simple song that would be understood by viewers of all nationalities. In a matter of weeks, both John and Paul wrote songs for the show, agreeing that the best song would be performed. Paul’s song, “All Together Now,” was rejected, and Lennon’s song was chosen. “All You Need is Love” was first introduced live to a worldwide audience estimated at 400 million and quickly became the anthem of a generation.

The Who and Jimi Hendrix were using feedback in concerts, but The Beatles were the first band to use feedback in a recording. John Lennon once set his acoustic electric guitar down against his amplifier and the ‘A’ string started feeding back through the amp causing an ear catching distortion. That ‘A’ string distortion was used purposely at the beginning of “I Feel Fine,” marking the first time distortion was used in a recording.

Speaking of recording techniques, The Beatles were the first to record with headphones as monitors and not just open sound everywhere. They were also the first band to use electric keyboards and synthesizers in their music, including a mellotron as featured in “Strawberry Fields Forever.”

The Beatles were basically the first to use any sort of sampling in their songs. For example, they were the first recording artists to use the grunt of a pig on one of their songs (“Piggies” from the White Album.) They were also first to use the sounds of several different barnyard animals, as evidenced in “Good Morning, Good Morning.” They also used jet engine sounds (“Back In The U.S.S.R.”) and the sounds of the singer inhaling (“Girl” from the Rubber Soul album).

They were the first artists to use backwards recordings on a record. John Lennon had taken the tape home from that day’s recording session and when he put it on his machine at home he was a bit stoned and put the tape in the machine backwards. When he played it, he liked what he heard and came back to the studio to announce that he had found an ending for that song—”Rain.”

Others had used the backward tape procedure before. There was a song called “Scratchy” from 1964 that used spoken words backwards, but “Rain” used backwards vocals first in any song. The sound of backwards guitar can be heard on “I’m Only Sleeping” while the sounds of backward cymbals was used on “Baby You’re A Rich Man.”

Buddy Holly had used a string section in the late 1950s when he recorded, “True Love Ways,” but The Beatles were the first group to use a full orchestra in popular music. The band Chicago was influenced by a 1966 recording from the Revolver album called “Got To Get You Into My Life,” which featured a horn section with a rock band. Chicago even played that particular tune in their concerts.

The Beatles were the first to use a sitar in popular music. George had become interested in the Eastern religion, culture and music while filming “Help!” in 1965 and decided to incorporate the sound of that Eastern stringed instrument in the “Rubber Soul” album. He did so in the song, “Norwegian Wood.”

The Fab Four were the first band where you heard more than one singer. Most bands had a lead singer with maybe some backup singers, but The Beatles had every member of the group singing lead.
They were the first band to have a record go over the standard 2 –3 minute mark for length when they released “Hey Jude” at more than 7 minutes total length.

Other Beatle firsts include having the drummer sit higher than the others in concert, with Ringo and his drum set up on a riser. They were the first band to simultaneously take a bow after the end of the song. They were first to have one song run into another, an uncommon practice of the era. They had the first rock-concept album (Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band).

They were the first artists to say informal things like “yeah” or “turn me on” in a song. They were the first to release an album with a completely blank cover (The White Album.) They were the first band to incorporate subliminal messages in their songs. Listen closely to the end of “Strawberry Fields Forever” and you’ll hear John say “I buried Paul,” a reference to one of the many hints or so-called clues they planted to further the rumors that Paul was dead. Turns out he wasn’t. Go figure. In the song, “Glass Onion,” John sings, “Here’s another clue for you all. The walrus was Paul.”

These four lads from Liverpool conquered England in 1963 before setting their sights on the United States. Unlike other British performers before them, they took America by storm. On February 9, 1964, 73 million television viewers witnessed the Beatles’ first live performance in the US on The Ed Sullivan Show. According to Neilson ratings, an astounding 43 percent of all television sets in the country were tuned in. There were no recorded crimes in the whole United States during the whole time they were on.

In early 1964, “I Want to Hold Your Hand” was number one on the US Top 100. Two months later, on April 4, 1964, the Beatles occupied all five top positions on Billboard’s Top Pop Singles with “Can’t Buy Me Love,” “Twist and Shout,” “She Loves You,” “I Want to Hold Your Hand,” and “Please Please Me.” This phenomenal feat was a first for rock and roll, and the record still stands in the twenty-first century.” The next week, they held 14 positions on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, beating Elvis’ record of nine.

Although many British acts had attempted to crossover to America, the Beatles were the first to hit it big in the States. Between 1958 and 1964 there were probably around 500 different bands in the Merseyside area. The Beatles were the first to rise to the top. The rest is history.

The American and British singles of “A Hard Day’s Night” as well as both the American and British albums of the same title all held the top position in their respective charts for a couple of weeks in August 1964, the first time any artist had done this.

The American single began its 13-week chart run five days after release, and on August 1st started a two-week long run at the top, setting a new record—nobody before had ever held the number one position on both the album and singles charts in the United Kingdom and the United States at the same time. The Beatles were the first to do so, and continued to be the only ones who had done this until 1970 when Simon and Garfunkel achieved the same feat with their album Bridge Over Troubled Water and its title track.

The Beatles were the first to debut in the US top 10 with their ‘68 hit, “Hey Jude. And their 1964 single, “Can’t Buy Me Love” was the first record to sell a million copies before its release. This tune is one of the first songs ever to start with the chorus, as opposed to most other songs that began with a verse.

On a non-musical note, a report revealed the presence of a chemical in 12 to 14-year-old girls that causes them to get extremely agitated when a musical idol is onstage. The Beatles were the first to cause scientists to study this phenomenon.

Until the days of The Beatles, almost all sales were a single with a B-side, more normally referred to the 45 or the 78 before it. They were first to have million-selling 45s with TWO A-sided hits, as evidenced with “Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields Forever.”

The Beatles were the first to make an album so interesting musically as to have people want it all. Until this time most albums contained one or two hits from that artist with the rest of the tunes as “fillers” to round out the album. When you think about it, there are no “obscure” Beatle tunes. Even lesser played album cuts are instantly recognized. No other band can claim that distinction.

So the next time to run into someone who wants to argue the importance (or overrated status) of The Beatles, you will be well-armed with this information to fill them in and shut them down. Turn me on, dead man.

[tonyh29]

The one thing I can never understand is why there is so much hostility towards McCartney.

 

I can understand the disappointment at some of his early post-Beatles output but the obsession with trying to devalue his contribution to the Beatles is beyond me because he really knew how to write a song and he was probably the most talented musician of the four (he even played drums).

 

I assume that it can only be about the politics of pop appreciation and that Lennon's aggressive teddy-boy image is mistaken for authenticity, that chimerical beast which is often confused with other things.

 

 

I've never been hostile to Macca  ,though  I do find his solo work a bit meh  ...  but for me no Lennon = no Beatles   ..for sure McCartney would have found fame , Harrison and Starr  too but Lennon was the force  ... McCartney sorta came more to the fore on Sgt Pepper , that was his idea , his solo album almost  , but the best track on it is still Lennon's A Day in the Life

 

I think Lennon was just a complicated person rather than a chimerical person ... arguably you have to be to be a rock star

[bickster]

So the Beatles used technology that wasn't invented until after they'd split up? How is this possible? Using a tape loop is no sampling before anyone attempts that and if one did want to go down that line I'm damn sure the proponents of Musique Concrete were doing this before The Beatles were out of nappies

[tonyh29]

Exactly. I didn't out rightly say 'they were the first to sample', just that before the Beatles, the public were not familiar with the concept.

With regards to intentional use of feedback. They were the first to use it on a recording.

 

I feel fine  .... Bicks has tried to debunk this before   ..there is a case for Robert Ashley  , but i think the actual feedback claim for Lennon is  " on a rock record "

[tonyh29]

So the Beatles used technology that wasn't invented until after they'd split up? How is this possible? Using a tape loop is no sampling before anyone attempts that and if one did want to go down that line I'm damn sure the proponents of Musique Concrete were doing this before The Beatles were out of nappies

 

 

Pedant  .. Yellow Submarine used Sampling , not tape looping

[dAVe80]

There are a lot of bands I would say mean more to me, and that I probably like more, but I think it's the familiarity of their music, and the fact that there's so much of it, that sets them apart for me. I do think Sgt Peppers is overrated. Still a good album (it's got a A Day In The Life on it after all), but overrated. '66 is my favourite Beatles year. They still all wanted to be in the band and were friends, they released Revolver (which is awesome) and the Paperback Writer / Rain single, and Ringo's drumming on all of these recordings was stella. 

 

As for the McCartney backlash, I think it's mostly down to what a knob he's become. Apart from Ringo, I think they were all pretty horrible people sometimes. George was quite an angry and bitter person, but because he was quiet people thought he was laid back.

[bickster]

So the Beatles used technology that wasn't invented until after they'd split up? How is this possible? Using a tape loop is no sampling before anyone attempts that and if one did want to go down that line I'm damn sure the proponents of Musique Concrete were doing this before The Beatles were out of nappies

 

 

Pedant  .. Yellow Submarine used Sampling , not tape looping

That isn't sampling either, its just a single recording of a brass band slowed down and added to the master tape. Again proponents of musique concrete had been doing it for decades, hell even the BBC Radiophonic Workshop had been doing it and they even released records produced by none other than George Martin before the Beatles had cut their first record

[bickster]

There are a lot of bands I would say mean more to me, and that I probably like more, but I think it's the familiarity of their music, and the fact that there's so much of it, that sets them apart for me. I do think Sgt Peppers is overrated. Still a good album (it's got a A Day In The Life on it after all), but overrated. '66 is my favourite Beatles year. They still all wanted to be in the band and were friends, they released Revolver (which is awesome) and the Paperback Writer / Rain single, and Ringo's drumming on all of these recordings was stella. 

 

As for the McCartney backlash, I think it's mostly down to what a knob he's become. Apart from Ringo, I think they were all pretty horrible people sometimes. George was quite an angry and bitter person, but because he was quiet people thought he was laid back.

Lennon was the most despicable of them all. A wifebeater who sang about Peace and Love

[bickster]

http://www.cybermidi.com/news/index.php/practical-midi/announcements/an-amazing-list-of-beatle-firsts

That whole article is a complete hoot!

First band to use pigs in a recording (seriously!)… First band to use a Mellotron (made in Brum btw) in a recording (untrue - Graham Bond)… "The Fab Four were the first ban where you can hear more than one singer!"…

Thanks for sharing, better than your usual material I must admit

[Morpheus]

Stefan is right in a fashion. The Beatles were certainly one of the first exponents of sampling on tracks that were in the mainstream. And many people did follow on from their success on certain tracks

And they did that through the expertise of George Martin who's contribution Stefan referred to as irrelevant to those sound effects.

 

George Martin was very much involved in the creative process of Beatle song writing and many if not all the most notable sound effects unique to that time were created by Martin and his engineers.

 

As stated before people who haven't already read Martin's book on the making of Sergeant Pepper should take the time to read it as it discloses just how important his role was in making music by the Beatles so experimental and unique to it's time.

[dAVe80]

 

There are a lot of bands I would say mean more to me, and that I probably like more, but I think it's the familiarity of their music, and the fact that there's so much of it, that sets them apart for me. I do think Sgt Peppers is overrated. Still a good album (it's got a A Day In The Life on it after all), but overrated. '66 is my favourite Beatles year. They still all wanted to be in the band and were friends, they released Revolver (which is awesome) and the Paperback Writer / Rain single, and Ringo's drumming on all of these recordings was stella. 

 

As for the McCartney backlash, I think it's mostly down to what a knob he's become. Apart from Ringo, I think they were all pretty horrible people sometimes. George was quite an angry and bitter person, but because he was quiet people thought he was laid back.

Lennon was the most despicable of them all. A wifebeater who sang about Peace and Love

 

 

Yeah, I said in an earlier post what a word removed I thought he was. He just comes across as sarcastic, bitter bully. Given your stance you may not have seen it, but even in the film, Help, he comes across that way.

[AVFCforever1991]

Might be one for Bicks...

 

http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-lennon/

 

Interesting if true, must be hard for some people to come to the realisation that the people they idolise are just humans and have flaws like everyone else.

 

Good music though...

Edited November 15, 2013 by AVFCforever1991