Are the Beatles over-rated?

[Morpheus]

I would suggest before making silly statements like that you take a little time out to read Martin's book on the making of Sergeant Pepper or any Beatle documentary on how eh, 'irrelevant' George Martin's expertise was in arranging music by the Beatles.

[StefanAVFC]

Way to completely miss the point.

 

I didn't say Martin's expertise was irrelevant. Without him, they wouldn't have been anywhere near as famous or influential as they were. My original point was that The Beatles influenced how recordings were made because when people listen to the recordings or analyse them, they don't say 'that George Martin knows his way around a recording'. The first thought everybody would have is 'The Beatles really know how to record a song'.

 

Sure, there would be some buffs who would go beyond the music, but you're telling me that the everyday person knows that George Martin was the reason for the recordings? And even if they do, will they really give him a huge part of the credit when talking about influence? Background people rarely get any plaudits. Or do they just see the Beatles generally as having a big effect on recording techniques? It was pretty obvious I was talking generally in my OP and I think it's pretty clear to see you latched onto the idea that was taken from the first part of my post without taking on board the context which was clearly laid out in the second part.

 

And please don't try to lecture me on a subject I have studied at university as part of my music degree. 

Edited November 15, 2013 by StefanAVFC

[chrisp65]

good grief

[DeHavilland]

My heart and passion has always been in black american music, YES The Beatles are a covers band, who got lucky and are hugely over rated.

[StefanAVFC]

And anyway, if you're being that nitpicky, then one could argue that without Epstein then Martin wouldn't be in the picture either. But I'm talking about The Beatles as a whole package as being hugely influential in many ways.

[tonyh29]

With respect anyone saying Ringo was a poor drummer is talking rubbish

Anybody can be good at the drums with a lot of practice but what makes a good drummer is the ability to interpret song structure... He WAS the Beatles sound as much as anything with his own unique sound ( he was basically a leftie who played with a right handed setup )

And "she said she said" is a master class of drumming

As to the other arguments they've been done to death but I doubt there is a musician alive ( and even some dead ones ) that hasn't been influenced by them in some way... Just like the Beatles were themselves influenced by others before them

I.e name the Beatles song that they borrowed from here

[chrisp65]

excuse my ignorance, but why would you play drums with a right set up if you're a lefty?

 

genuine question, I've a full set up in the other room and I can't see why it can't be handed if it makes any difference

[StefanAVFC]

Might be a foot thing. I'm no drummer but I can imagine it would be awkward to do the bass pedal with your left foot and hi-hat with your right if you're right footed.

[Cliffy Biro]

On the whole for me yes they were but at the same time they have a quite a few brilliant songs i just couldn't sit there and listen to whole albums.

[chrisp65]

move the hat to the other side?

 

anyway, it's a digression

 

personally, I prefer The Small Faces, but I can see the debt they owe, but I still prefer them 

 

but it's all gravy, good music is good music

[tonyh29]

excuse my ignorance, but why would you play drums with a right set up if you're a lefty?

genuine question, I've a full set up in the other room and I can't see why it can't be handed if it makes any difference

Beats me ... maybe for the same reason that some left handed guitar players play a right handed guitar restrung upside down or whatever it is they do ??

[Morpheus]

Way to completely miss the point.

 

I didn't say Martin's expertise was irrelevant. Without him, they wouldn't have been anywhere near as famous or influential as they were. My original point was that The Beatles influenced how recordings were made because when people listen to the recordings or analyse them, they don't say 'that George Martin knows his way around a recording'. The first thought everybody would have is 'The Beatles really know how to record a song'.

 

Sure, there would be some buffs who would go beyond the music, but you're telling me that the everyday person knows that George Martin was the reason for the recordings? And even if they do, will they really give him a huge part of the credit when talking about influence? Background people rarely get any plaudits. Or do they just see the Beatles generally as having a big effect on recording techniques? It was pretty obvious I was talking generally in my OP and I think it's pretty clear to see you latched onto the idea that was taken from the first part of my post without taking on board the context which was clearly laid out in the second part.

 

And please don't try to lecture me on a subject I have studied at university as part of my music degree. 

Ah right. Please excuse me for breathing here. I didn't know that studying at university automatically makes your opinion right and on this occasion it certainly doesn't

 

If you read your post again you basically stated that Martin's contribution to the technical side of Beatle recordings was irrelevant due to the songs selling  themselves.

 

In your studies at university were you aware that none of the Beatles could read music? That alone should tell you a lot even before you get into the technical side of creating sound and sound effects and please stop using your education to back your debate as it's arrogance personified and an insult to university education.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Morpheus

[chrisp65]

nah, the lefty guitar thing I understand, people do struggle that can't get hold of a lefty guitar

 

 

drums? a series of symmetrical independent objects you place in an order that suits you and your style

 

BUT!!! all this is utterly irrelevant because this wonderful subject has caused me to find a box set release for the Small Faces that's coming out in January

 

I've got a few records and cd's around the place, by a country mile the largest collection is Small Faces, it'll be just plain essential to get the new stuff (price is a bit ouch, but that's what plastic is for)

[tonyh29]

nah, the lefty guitar thing I understand, people do struggle that can't get hold of a lefty guitar

drums? a series of symmetrical independent objects you place in an order that suits you and your style

BUT!!! all this is utterly irrelevant because this wonderful subject has caused me to find a box set release for the Small Faces that's coming out in January

I've got a few records and cd's around the place, by a country mile the largest collection is Small Faces, it'll be just plain essential to get the new stuff (price is a bit ouch, but that's what plastic is for)

Sadly I didn't go to Uni so couldn't give you a more qualified answer

Zombies over the small faces for me but I don't mind them

[avfc1982]

Since the Beatles split up, everything Paul McCartney has done has been unutterably shit.

'McCartney" is a very fine album. Even his much later Flowers in the Dirt album is good as well.

[8pints]

'McCartney" is a very fine album. 

 

He's lost a bit of imagination with that one

[Ginko]

I drum a bit and I'm right-handed but left-footed. I play standard righty set-up though. It took a bit of getting used to using my right foot on the kick drum though.

[blandy]

Of course they're over-rated. It's not something that's unique to them. A huge number of big selling artists are over-rated. It's partly the fault of the music industry, which is interested in keeping sales up, and so consistently re-package, re-present, re-market and so on.

Then there's the second aspect, which is time. A case could be made in the 60s and 70s (up to Krautrock and punk), that a fair amount of the music made at that time owed something to bands like the Beatles and Stones, Beachboys, Byrds etc.

But since then, other than some very derivative acts, there's much much more diverence from what was influential all that time ago. They're not therefore having an influence on todays music, or that of the last 25 + years to any extent.

There's also an argument (not strictly accurate, but partly so) that there's nothing new under the sun. But the Beatles were just a relatively short running act on the path from way back before, they burned brightly at the time, are liked by millions for a relatively small number of songs - "Yesterday", Eleanor Rigby, Penny Lane and a couple of others are the ones that people name in citing the Beatles "excellence", or a couple of albums Sgt. Peppers and the White Album, generally.

That's it, in general terms, a handful of enduring songs, a couple of hugely popular albums and a legacy of being popular around the time of, and therefore part of, a period of general changes in life.

I suppose if you like them a great deal, they're not over-rated. If you don't like them*, then they are.

*I don't like them.

[maqroll]

My heart and passion has always been in black american music, YES The Beatles are a covers band, who got lucky and are hugely over rated.

Erm, the Beatles played and recorded other people's music up until about 1964. After that, it was all original material. Lucky? Hardly. They played their fingers off in England and Germany for a good few years before they broke out big time.

[maqroll]

With respect anyone saying Ringo was a poor drummer is talking rubbish

Anybody can be good at the drums with a lot of practice but what makes a good drummer is the ability to interpret song structure... He WAS the Beatles sound as much as anything with his own unique sound ( he was basically a leftie who played with a right handed setup )

And "she said she said" is a master class of drumming

As to the other arguments they've been done to death but I doubt there is a musician alive ( and even some dead ones ) that hasn't been influenced by them in some way... Just like the Beatles were themselves influenced by others before them

I.e name the Beatles song that they borrowed from here

Lennon uses that same sliding riff to close out "The Ballad of John and Yoko"