MrBlack

Solid, seems to have a decent cross on him. All the best Charlie!

Can't see Watford getting 9 points, certainly not after their last match. Newcastle and west ham I can see being draws, would leave them with 5 instead of 9. But such are the small margins at this point who really knows.

That I won't discount, but only because I don't really know how good West ham are going to perform in their run in.

We aren't getting the 3 wins we'd need to overhaul what Brighton will end up with. There's no way they lose every game between now and end of the season. They are very much out of it for me.

Except we're then going into yet another season with yet another new manager. Who presumably won't get appointed until late in the window. Whoever we appoint is going to struggle to start with, and unless they get given time we are going nowhere. By the thought process of most on here that want him gone, it feels like you expect whoever comes in to overachieve with what they have before being given the chance to stay as manager, and then even if they do that, they'll be sacked the second we don't push on the very next season with all sorts of limitations and hindering factors thrown in. We are going nowhere with that approach. Is promotion at the first time of asking with only half a season to do it, a league cup final and a tight relegation battle really under acheiving? On topic edit: I feel blame lies with both, but more heavily with the squad, such that Dean shouldn't be the fall guy for this, at this point in time.

The thing about asking what Clough would make of things is, for me, totally irrelevant. The best people at their job, of any era, are the best because they take what is currently done, and improve on it. Put the superstars of yesteryear in todays climate and they'd have had the same relative background to anyone else currently as they did in their own time, but they'll do more with it. The difference is probably that the gap between the top and the bottom of all walks of life is increasing, so it makes it less likely that someone will break the mould from nothing, but exceptional people are exceptional and would be so in any era.

I honestly think another 6 points may even be enough given how terrible everyone around us looks. 6 more probably enough, 7 should be, with 8 more i think we're laughing. I dont, however, think we'll get 8 more, and whatever happens we are almost certainly going to need to beat west ham on the last day

Didn't realise his court date was so far away. Is the potential punishment limited to licence points and fines? If so, he's probably fine given footballers live in a world where these things seemingly don't matter to them (loads of money for the fine, ability to afford a chauffeur/taxis everywhere they want to go, and a world of employers that couldn't give 2 sh*ts about whether you broke the law ). We should have used the incident as an opportunity to instil Mings as captain. Behind the scenes we could sell him the story that its to ease the pressure on him and leave him free to do what he does best. I don't think being captain in our situation is doing him any favours.

"protect the sporting integrity of competition" - the most significant thing that FFP achieves is the exact opposite of this. Total joke of a regulation.

The aging team we had last time we were relegated needed replacing in its entirety. The team we have this time will need whoever we lose to be replaced, and maybe a decent winger or striker added to it assuming we lose our most creative player in grealish. Financially we are sound and will have more to spend than last time, with less required and fewer FFP restrictions. They're completed different situations. Mings, McGinn and the others that have only been with us a relatively short time will either sell for decent amounts or have to stay. They're not irreplaceable.

How have we gone from having a game in hand on everyone to having played a game more? Why is it fair that we've played 4 games in quick succession after a 3 month break, whilst other teams have played 2 allowing them to get up to speed more gradually. Are the Premier league deliberately trying to screw us over?

These are my thoughts also, albeit put far more eloquently. We probably over achieved last year, we may be under achieving this year. Dean can take major credit for the former as it wasn't his squad and he was the only difference between us being crap and not. He takes partial credit for the latter given the management structure we have in place with regards to signing players. Had we been a success this season Dean would again have only been partially responsible. The only evidence we have is to say that he got a poor team playing well last season. We can't be sure if the players we have this season are capable or not, but evidence suggests not, and I'm not inclined to solely blame Smith for that. Just wish he wouldn't wait until 70 minutes to make changes when we're losing.

That's fair enough. It reassures me that he's a fan as he will be as desperate for us to win for himself, for his dad, as well as for his job and career. The free ride was as much for the fact we were a complete sh*t show before he became our manager and he turned it around, as for the fact he's a fan. It just gives him a bit more leeway for me. Not enough on its own, but all counts

1 - Others have stated that many successful endings have started with poor runs. History is littered with examples, most notably Alex Ferguson at United. Yes, the modern game has examples too but that isn't really the main point. I'm not expecting the players that we assembled at haste following an unexpected promotion, with a core team that for the most part of last seasom struggled to compete in the championship, would be competing above the relegation spots. Our current form largely reflects the quality of the team we have, so the stability i'm after is giving someone more than a season to build a team. You can't fix what was wrong with our club in one season. 2 - Jacks performances improved under Smith's management, surely he takes some credit for that? 3 - I dont see what happens in training, we didn't have much in the way of other options, and not starting your very expensive striker when your only alternatives are youth strikers isn't exactly a stick to beat him with. I'm pointing out that he has the opportunity to demonstrate what he's learned from going through that, and having made that mistake, and maybe in future years he wont sit idly by when the owners feel it is OK to go into a season with only one (unproven) striker 4 - or we run the risk that we repeat the exact same mistake we've made for the past 15+ years 5 - I said its a pretty weak reason, but effectively I don't see any benefit in swapping managers now. I think the same outcome is happening this season irrespectice of who is in charge. No short term bounce is happening that will help us in those games we're almost certainly going to lose, and I reckon Dean is as likely as anyone else to get us a win against crystal Palace and west ham. Its an opinion, I expect others will disagree 6 - I prefer not to sh!t on one of our own, especially when I only hold him partially responsible for the mess we're in. I am not saying there aren't counter arguments, but I'd just like us to have a manager for more than 1.5 seasons and Dean is worthy of having that opportunity.

The defence part could be down to the opposition being rusty as anything else. I'd guess that match fitness is less of an issue for a defender than a midfielder/winger who generally covers much more ground at a much faster rate. Either way, agree that we haven't looked particularly threatened defensively but don't think anyone stands out as having played well there. Offensively we are definitelu letting ourselves down. And yes, good point about Luiz, hopefully not just trying to put himself in the shop window. Don't think it undermines my point about McGinn though, he is still capable of performing in the PL.

Yes he's been poor since the restart, but who hasn't in our team. I don't fully understand why his injury seems to be taking longer to recover from than expected (players all react and recover differently) but I can see that he was our second best player before he started playing through injury. Who's have thought that doing that, followed by a covid-impacted rehab routine might hamper his recovery, although I do think he should still be at the races by now and for some reason he isn't Saying he won't cut it in the PL is premature, he already had done to a degree before he got injured. Need to keep him if we get relegated, and I'd back him to be good enough next season whether we do or not.

Quite a damning indicment on our strike force, although as its a per minute stat and he hasnt been that present this season probably not as much as you'd expect. I suspect as grealish is one of the most fouled players in the league Conor gets more than the average number of opportunities to create a goal scoring opportunity when he's on the pitch. Doesn't make up for his seemingly nonchalant attitude to everything else on the pitch, and for me demonstrates why he should be used as an impact sub at opportune moments

That meme doesn't work post lockdown, althoguh given its from a Man City fan that isn't a surprise. He's been one of the most disappointing players in these last few games. Guess you can partially blame Smith for playing him out wide, but even so, the meme doesn't work yet. I don't buy that he doesn't want to keep us up. Maybe subconsciously he's struggling with the fact he will have to leave if he wants to fulfil the current view of what a successful football career looks like. Maybe his desire to stay and see Villa become a force again is fighting that or any other demon that is encouraging him to leave and his mindset is taking a hit. Confidence may be hit based on our results and his respectice performances. The court appearance may be playing on his mind. His fitness will no doubt be weak, given he was getting drunk at McCormacks during lockdown, I doubt he was fully committed to the season restarting. If he accepts that he's moving, or decides he's staying, it should free his mind. the court decision will probably treat him kindly being the high profile person he is. His fitness will get better. There's every chance he becomes our saviour, or fulfils that meme in the remaining games.

I'm very much undecided. In the immediate aftermath of our most recent terrible performances i want him gone. When I calm down and think about it I can see the merits in keeping him. 1) we've not had stability for decades. There isn't a single manager we've had that had ended up getting the boot in that timeframe that even the slightest part of me wanted to stay. Smith would offer stability. 2) the fact he did get us promoted, with us playing some of the best football we've seen in those last 2 decades, is nothing to ignore. He got our longest winning streak in modern history. Admittedly a large part of that was thanks to Grealish, but the whole team was performing exceptional in the second half of last season. 3) despite his insistence on making late substitutions, if we go down with him doing that, he may just learn he needs to add more to his managerial skillset. He has never managed in the Premier league before, he will have if he brings us back up next season. 4) the team we will have should see us capable of promotion with any of the managers in the top half of the championship, so he's got a relatively easy ride to get us back up, and if by December it's looking poor then is the time to change. 5) weak reasoning; there's no benefit sacking him now for this season. I see us staying up or going down irrespective of who is the manager. It really depends on whether any of the other teams pull off a shock result, which would mean our results in games that we should win (Palace and wet spam) are the only two that really matter 6) he's a Villan that deserves more respect than any of our recent managers, and even the chance to have this season as a free run in reality, we were likely to be shafted given how mission impossible this season was in retrospect

That could be a godsend. Even if they don't rest them, their star players aren't going to be throwing their all in and risking injury pre final with nothing else to play for. The way i have predicted things to go though would see a draw against them being as useful/useless as a loss, so we'd still probably need to beat them to avoid a last day nail biter

I have done a predictor being fairly negative with our scores, fairly optimistic with our oppositions and have it looking like this on the last day: 16 Watford FC 37 7 12 18 33:54 -21 33 17 West Ham United 37 8 8 21 38:60 -22 32 18 AFC Bournemouth 37 7 10 20 33:57 -24 31 19 Aston Villa 37 8 7 22 38:64 -26 31 20 Norwich City 37 5 6 26 25:63 -38 21 Brighton a few points out of danger zone. Would mean us needing to beat West ham and then Arsenal or Everton to do us a favour against Watford or Bournemouth respectively. Don't think my heart could take it, but if that were offered to me now I'd probably take it.

Its coming down to us v west ham on the last day isnt it

Watford look ready to self implode with three of their players having a party last week and consequently getting dropped this week. Fingers crossed this means our survival challenge isn't insurmountable

Would be great if they took advantage of the impending relaxation of FFP rules and went with a morale boosting, worthy sponsor instead of any of the morally corrupt gambling companies. That assumes our owners haven't been made bankrupt by the impending global financial crisis and dont need the income to spend it.

My bad, sorry for use of that word. Consider comment retracted, but I have to ask why would you tar them all with the same brush then? There are (albeit not many) decent British managers out there. Rodgers, by your own judgement would do a job, so don't assume they're all useless dinosaurs. Admittedly I don't see how we 'd persuade him to leave Leicester or be able to pay them enough compo but I'd give it a go still. What about Howe? Bournemouth would likely want rid of him if they go down, if they stay up he'd probably still be attainable due to the respective club profiles and the fact he hasnt pushed on following to some limited investment? Maybe not ideal for us but he's got some lessons learned there that would be valuable for us and has a progressive playing style, getting players performing above their ability. Beyond that you're looking at lower league managers currently, and I'd agree the step up would be too much for them. Whilst no more risky than hiring a foreign manager that hasn't managed in england before, it would likely just be a case of repeating what has happened with Smith. Monk had experience in the PL with Swansea, over achieved at blues, but admittedly hasn't demonstrated much in his current role at Sheff Wed but may be another option. I'd back Smith to get us promoted next season, but not sure if he has learnt his lessons this year to be able to do better in the PL next time round. Post the covid break there are too many variables to play the blame entirely at Smith's door. Ultimately, I'm still not sure swapping for another totally unknown quantity that hasn't managed in England is the way to go after the rotation of managers we've had lately. Stabilise then build for me.