A'Villan

I guess he's only human and if he wants to prolong his tenure to save face then that shows another sign of poor judgement. Unless of course he has a plan and the ability to carry on then do everyone a favour and move on, that's how I see it. What are you basing the notion that he won't be here by end of 2018 on? I take it you hold this view based on more than your understanding of the club and Xia's financial standing? 6 months will see a number of important decisions made for the club. I just hope he saves face by doing his utmost to ensure the club is not compromised further. As for what you say about a potential suitor coming forth as investor/buyer it's all a bit vague and I can't help but think you're not privy to any information that's exclusive or more than speculation. If he's getting investment from a 'mate' in China then he doesn't intend to sell to a would be buyer and would have some ambition and means to continue on as the owner of our club. If, as you say, investment leads to purchase then a new owner will instill their own policy and people and Xia will be redundant. Surely he has some foresight as to his money in China becoming available whereby he can make a decision as to whether or not he can continue to operate as owner. If it is the case that he is unable to continue and is stubbornly holding out on putting the club up for sale, I don't care if it's an attempt to recoup losses or his idea of saving face, one thing is clear and that is he has little insight in to how to operate with integrity. This may be business but that doesn't mean that it is conducted in a reckless manner, or that when things don't work out that self service becomes the default, sentiments are disregarded and financial gains the sole focus to the detriment of quality conduct. Wyness wants 6 million for the efforts he put in to seeing this club setup dysfunctionally. Absolute mug. No wonder we didn't get promoted. The ethos of this man is obviously Villa is going to be the best pay day the division has to offer, rather than being the best football club the division has to offer. Now Tony is supposedly concerned about recouping the sum paid for the club whilst the clubs financial standing is uncertain at best, now and going forward. This is not really my idea of someone who wants the best for the club. Part of leadership is admitting to your shortcomings and mistakes and taking responsibility. Unfortunately it would seem Xia's concern for his personal loss' and image is of higher importance than the clubs welfare and he too saw Villa as a means to payday rather than a community project. Europe in 5 years? Possible but not if the level of commitment to the clubs progress is defined and motivated by monetary incentive. I mean the leadership have seemingly failed to do anything that resembles an understanding for the club and community, with the exception of Bruce, who managed to inspire enough confidence in his vision to finish 4th and make the POF. Despite ultimately being a failure he can at least say he got a group of individuals working toward a common goal in a manner that nearly saw us succeed in our objective. Between Xia and Wyness they have thoroughly neglected their end of the deal.

@terrytini and anyone else who's interested in reading up on the subject. "Business Advantages of Supporter Community Ownership in Football" "It is clear that supporter community ownership creates long-term, deep and sustainable partnerships with key strategic partners." https://supporters-direct.org/assets/media/articleFiles/file-6WtseCMVPbuu.pdf

I know very little about business procedure, least of all the ownership of a sporting club but why delay the inevitable? Unless the two parties will work together to facilitate a smoother transition from one owner to the next, I don't really see who benefits this way. The end of 2018 is still 6 months of decision making away. I don't know if Xia is as poor an owner and businessmen as is being touted, or if a lack of knowledge, over enthusiasm and poor counsel cemented his undoing before he had a chance to show the qualities that led him to ownership in the first place. In any case I hope he treats the coming months with a bit more care and deliberation regards the clubs well being than what's been a severe case of mismanagement up until now.

Think you're right about Xia's decision making being poor in regards to appointments. I don't think he's identified the right people to take the club forward, or developed a culture where leadership believe in the vision to the point of making sure objectives are attained. This is largely Wyness' responsibility though, and for that reason I don't agree with the notion that they have to be a football man. He wants 6 million payout for essentially overseeing a plan whereby we fail to hit our targets and waste valuable resource. So much for being a football man. The Villa Engine seems to be a vague ideology based more on the appeasing of supporters than any concrete methodology as to how the club will run or how the football will be played. If Wyness and Xia had invested a little more caution and rationale in to the clubs operation they would have shown a better understanding of the environment specific and unique to Aston Villa. A model for success better tailored to the club might've yielded more favourable results at a lesser price. One thing that I think Xia has done is pursue 'football men'. Without being privy to the events and discussions that took place I can only guess that Xia has heaped a lot of faith on his 'football men' to get it right. Wyness to run the club. Di Matteo and Bruce to employ the players they want and win the football. None of whom took the initiative or showed the leadership to say, this clubs got some financial considerations and obligations that need meeting, I'll factor that in to my approach. Which simply showed a lack of understanding for the club but as importantly a lack of integrity and care for the job at hand.

Not so sure I agree. It would take something monumental, something special. With the right coaching and setup though there's no reason we won't be competitive in each fixture, hopefully we get it right and take it one further than that in some fixtures.

Interesting point. I can understand your disappointment with having to front money to get a hearing. Perhaps a well thought out letter of proposal could find it's way to the relevant parties in order to arouse some mutual interest. I'm not entirely sure what your suggested plan and efforts are all about, other than further engaging the supporters in finance, decision making and hierarchy of the club, if I'm even on the right track there? I'm of the opinion that we need expertise to take the club forward and compete at the top tier. Whether that be through fresh ideas or experienced personnel, I hope there would be some balance. One thing I have no doubt about is that the passion and commitment to the club that the supporters have would be a force to be reckoned with, and would be a welcome addition to keeping the board and CEO in check, adding a meaning and purpose to operations beyond business enterprise. Theirs no substitute for having your heart in it. It would be a matter of transparency and communication between the board and the clubs supporters, once privy to relevant information, supporters can weigh in on the decision making process and appointments. I really think it would create a culture of accountability rather than be of any hindrance. The problem as I understand it though is price and therefore supporter involvement would be something that cannot be bought at an affordable cost. Leaving the board with the ultimate decision on how much input and involvement fans are allowed.

Only news that I've read is that Tony will sell reluctantly if he recoups enough cash. Freund was prepared to table a bid before pulling out. A British consortium led by Southall are interested among others. It's convenient times for speculation with Villa supporters waiting on news of what's to come and nothing concrete about our situation coming from the club. Sorry if we are covering old ground with this next question. Are we any wiser regards the conflict between Wyness and Xia?

Agree with this. The only other prerequisite to success I would add is an active interest in the running of the club. Keeping up with the decisions of people in charge to better identify potential mistakes and areas for improvement. Not just taking it at face value that this person is going to be a success, I think we need to have a level of scrutiny and standards which challenges anyone to do their best. It's one thing to be able to pay the highest rates to obtain the best talent but it's something else to ensure an environment whereby that talent can function and develop. We saw that we are not so far above the rest that we can depend on wages offered, past performances and club stature alone to get where we want to be.

The people who can afford to buy Aston Villa won't necessarily be concerned with restoring a once great club to its former glory, without it benefiting them either financially, socially or both. What do you mean by the right mind or intention? Successful businessmen don't always amount to the most ethical or benevolent of people! I wonder if there are people out there who see Villa as a potentially great football club worth their time and investment still. Surely there are.

5 of the 8 players Bruce shipped out permanently went to top tier sides, so on one hand they were attractive prospects, on the other, they were bound to free up a large sum of wages. I don't see what all the fuss is about, unless the point is merely that he freed up money so therefore he should be able to spend money. Which for me doesn't necessarily ring true if ultimately it was beyond our means. He did some good business for sure in Terry and Snodgrass but if the figures are true of what we're paying the like of Lansbury, Hourihane, Hogan, Whelan, Samba etc. are true than we simply overpaid for this level. In response to an earlier post about his transfer dealings elsewhere, I am pretty confident he brought Stephane Sessegnon and Sulley Muntari to Sunderland.

I haven't followed Villa for very long. 8 years of watching most weeks. Call it as you see fit. I was referring to the change in losing mentality that was ingrained during our last few years in the Prem to the expectation of victory in the Championship. Also the acquisition of players who were the divisions top performers as opposed to some of the players that couldn't cut it from before. Plus if you were to believe the hype of some, we were destined for League 1. I don't think it qualifies as absolutely moronic put in that context but each to their own.

I don't agree, I think he inherited a club turning a corner. Freshly out of a very miserable patch in its history, without doubt. To his credit he got them results better than RDM immediately and therefore bought himself time. I think an apt description of Bruce is said in reference to his playing style, "an honest trier who made the absolute most of limited natural ability" and, "His indomitable spirit and motivational qualities were vital to United". To continue with what was happening in his personal life, in the manner that he did, deserves admiration. I remember a PC with Bruce where he explained what a CB's role is and what assets are most vital to them, another where he discusses forwards being able to defend. Which highlights that his approach and focus is in contrast to that of my idols and ideals. What's relevant though is can he take Aston Villa forward? So far the best argument I've heard for it comes from TRO, which is mostly philosophical which (although my favourite) doesn't rely too heavily on what's transpired before us, rather an optimism which is is a quality of TRO's, not necessarily indicative of why Bruce will take us forward where others won't.

When you consider the cost and what he went ahead and assembled anyway. It's one thing to be confident and back yourself, it's another to negate any responsibility for club financial welfare on the basis it's not a prominent part of your job description whilst singing about mending the relationship to the fans. That's arrogance. That's one thing that has pissed me off with Bruce. It's never his fault. He's been here since 2016. At what point does he become part of the collective that is Aston Villa and accept responsibility beyond challenging for promotion one year, second attempt? "To be there or thereabouts" is actually my idea of a successful season, but not if as a consequence the club has a meaningless regression that puts our future in doubt the very next year, or fails to retain a playing standard that resembles either building on foundations or minor cut backs in order to allow for further growth. Bruce is not absolved from blame in all this, should our ability to push for promotion in the coming season be hampered by what's transpired in the one just finished. He likes to think he inherited a right mess. We had 6 out of 11 starters already playing for us under Di Matteo, and a considerable amount of the deadwood shifted out under Di Matteo, whether by loan or permanently. 11 players were moved on permanently under Di Matteo, 8 under Bruce (over half of which went to top tier clubs). I think Bruce takes some credit for the dirt left on RDM's hands. There's a large part of this spiel where I owe Bruce the credit he deserves as well and not purely the flak I've been posting of recent, but as a whole I fail to see how he's been a success. Is it possible he's a good choice as manager for us at the moment? Yes. Does that extricate him from being deemed as having under-performed? No. Do I think he will improve on his shortcomings, given time? No, I think he's gone all in and gone bust. I only hope he proves me and the rest of his critics wrong and has a season to have us consider another one under him, which is what I've said since he arrived. Which is getting tired.

Well, we'll get to see the two go head-to-head next season. Bielsa appointed Leeds boss. What a coup.

Looking forward to Spain v Portugal, biggest game of the weekend.

Sorry to only partially quote you, but it's all that's relevant to my post. We don't even know this much (wait, do we?). Could it simply be two men at loggerheads over the future of the club and/or their responsibilities to it?

These Brazilian players are still my all time favourites and who I look to for inspiration when playing futsal. I loved watching Zidane and France. 2014 Columbia was the standout for me, obviously James Rodriguez. How he didn't win the golden ball, or even place in the top 3, is beyond me. My total disillusion with Germany annihilating Brazil in what I thought was setup to be a brilliant final.

Sent a letter to Xia today. Nothing spectacular, just concise. From one fan to another. Supporter emails are probably the last thing he's reading though, perhaps to his detriment.

This is basically a sum of my fears regarding Bruce. I just don't see us magically becoming a better tactical outfit with a team of lesser players. Don't get me wrong it's been done but it would mean that for one reason or another the group that finished fourth were not playing to Bruce's expectations(something I highly doubt), or we strike lucky and find that Bruce's go to methods for getting it right were not his best because he manages to instill better systems in a different team (something I highly doubt). I agree with @TRO that the weight of expectation can come at a cost, but it can also motivate, and I think the best will find the hype adds to their drive. I will wait and see what my expectations of the club are after all this uncertainty becomes more clear.

I know very little about the financial side of British football, from the little I do know about team sports in general it would have to mean the EFL are partially culpable if our worst fears are realised? Something I just don't see happening. Could very well be the case that the systems here are nothing like the ones over there. What seems to be the only recurring theme in every bit of Villa related news at the moment is the uncertainty. Which goes back to 2016 and the very identity of the man at the helm.

Agree with this. From my limited view I can't see anyone but Bruce. I hope he proves me wrong. That said there's a way to go before the new season KO and a lot to be answered for.

To add to @Deisler123's point. There are those with a 49 billion dollar income in Australia who pay less than 1% tax. As opposed to someone of the avg household income of 80k, who pays 28% tax. That's the world we live in.

Comer Brothers on record as saying they were glad not to of purchased Aston Villa in the end as it turned out to be bad business. That was in 2013 and although a lot can change in 5 years, opinions most of all, I don't really think we're in any better position. Although the Comer brother philosohy is "You want to be running in with your cash when everyone else is running out with theirs."

Isn't this just due diligence and no more indicative of financial crisis than Spurs showing an interest in Grealish? Or am I missing something and this is in fact a sign of the financial mess we're in? Every team, every season, goes under review to ascertain what they have financial capacity for by the league officials in the competition I'm most familiar with here in Australia. Some are straightforward whereas some are complex and relegated and promoted teams ALWAYS fall under intense scrutiny and have to share their model for success with the league in order to finalise their standing. That's the system here. So the EFL wanting to check financial plans of a club in our position, all things considered, isn't a doomsday sign rather a formality. In any case it would be nice to get some concrete answers and conclusions surrounding all this.