A'Villan

This for me deserves a post of it's own. Where has Bruce done anything close to this? Championship or not, does Bielsa still seem like someone you would pass on given the opportunity?

He's very demanding and I think that goes against him as well as for him. Ancelotti was out of work up until recently, I'll assume you'd take him? Agree his tendency to leave when things don't go his way is concerning and not what Aston Villa need at this point in time. That said we don't know what transpired each time he decided to call it a day, his reasons could be noble for all we know or care. You choose not to mention the records he set with Chile or his two cup finals with Bilbao, beating United in both legs en route to lose to Atletico Madrid in the Europa League final, and Barcelona in the Copa Del Rey. His record at Argentina isn't even all that bad, one defining loss to an England team which featured some of the country's greats. He had a relatively easy run in the Copa Del Rey but overcame Schalke and Sporting as well as United in the Europa League. Better than MON could do for us. It's the stories I've read and the philosophy, tactics and attention to detail that make me think he's a great coach. He plays a pressing, attacking, possession based brand of football that is extremely demanding of his players tactically, physically, mentally and technically. You don't need to take my or Guardiola's word for it. There are a number of places you will find him labelled a genius. Guardiola says that titles aren't a factor when he addresses Bielsa as the best, and when you've been an influence to managers like Guardiola, Simeone and Pochettino you see that he has offered the game more than silverware. For me though it's the way he approaches the game. It's exactly what I'm looking for in a coach of any team sport. Adept in what has come before him and influential in his own brand that he has crafted. Not to mention he is obviously good with people too. It's easy to look at his nickname and club departures and assume he's a nut, but I can't imagine you've taken the time to look in to either, as if you had explored Bielsa you would find the reasons as to why I and many others praise him. You say he hasn't got a job, what manager have we had since Houllier that can boast the likes of Argentina, Chile, Bilbao, Marseille, Lazio and Lille? Not even MON competes with that. People want to mention money. Look at what Bruce spent. Bielsa brought in Bilbao's highest scoring striker for the last 6 years for a total sum of.. 2.5milliion. He averages 24 goals a season over that 6 years. His squad that took them to two cup finals consisted of 16 out of 29 players being either youth products, free transfers or deals under 300,000!! He had 7.5million to bring in Ander Herrera. They also finished 10th in La Liga with this squad. 16 out of 29 players for under 300k a pop. Two cup finals, 10th in La Liga. He also has the quality to coach and influence the likes of Pochettino, Alexis Sanchez, Medel, Vidal, Llorente (scored 29 goals under him), Javi Martinez (got a move to Bayern). You can see the qualities and philosophy of Bielsa's coaching in each of their games. Not to mention the way he treats the press and his philosophy regarding youth: "Bielsa likes to systematise the game. He says that there are 29 distinct formations in football and believes that every young player should be given the opportunity to experience each of them. [45] Fernando Llorente, who played under Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao, said of his former coach, "At first he seems tough and he may even annoy you with his persistence and don't-take-no-for-an-answer resilience, but in the end he is a genius."[46] Former Argentina National Team Striker Gabriel Batistuta proclaimed about Bielsa 'he was the one who taught me how to train on rainy days, he taught me everything[47] Manchester City player Benjamin Mendy cited for his improvement under Bielsa at Marseille, Mendy claimed Bielsa had "given back to him the strength and aggressiveness lost last year."[48][49] His teammate Aymeric Laporte who was given his debut by Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao, described him as a 'mentor' figure.[50] As Bielsa refuses to grant exclusive interviews, the press conference has become his preferred method of communication. He has been known to field every last question from the assembled media during these gatherings. If the talk turns to the intricacies of the game, a three- or even four-hour press conference is possible. According to him, "Every media should get the same attention from me, from the biggest TV station to the smallest newspaper." I'm just getting started, but I'm going to leave it there for now. What you should really be interested in though is analysis of his formations, tactics and philosophy. That is where he has made a name for himself and where he has gone on to influence the likes mentioned above. I can post some videos if anyone is interested. All that aside, aren't we looking for someone a who's going to demand a lot from the group we have, and with some of Bielsa's philosophies I might even suggest someone who will embrace the sort of challenges that face us as a club. Bielsa or Bruce? I'm more amazed that Bielsa has put himself in the discussion than I am that someone would suggest Bruce is the superior choice.

I really don't know I agree with this view, as being a guarantee anyway. Has Luis Suarez really had a better career for leaving Liverpool. He was sensational for Liverpool, had he stayed they could have built around him. Same goes for Torres, he went on to win the CL but did his play improve, hell no, massive regression. Benteke, the greatest football he has played is at Villa, no? If I look at, in my opinion, the greatest athlete in team sport history to grace the planet, Michael Jordan, he took a poor Bulls team, stuck around for 6 years and ended up building a dynasty of two, three-peats. But he waited 6 years, trusting in his own ability and work ethic. Jack won't ever be the greatest to grace the game, but he'll be damn good. Good enough to have a team built around him at his boyhood club. That counts for something, believe me. People spend their whole life imagining the kind of situation Jack finds himself in. It's just such a shame that the club of his dreams is currently experiencing a bit of a nightmare.

To take this out of the Bruce thread. I would love someone like Bielsa. He works obsessively to create his own good fortune. 6 years as Argentina manager with a 60% win rate, 4 with Chile including a reasonable WC in 2010, 2 years with Bilbao including two major cup finals and a 50% win rate with Marseille. Not bad for an overrated lunatic. So he has walked when agreements are not met, or he is not up to the task at hand. Without knowing the finer details I would say isn't the former understandable and the latter what supporters demand of their manager? Ranieri and Bielsa are two managers I would take over Bruce.

A team is just a collection of individuals working as a whole, so you're damn right the individual battle will determine the outcome of a teams performance. That's what I'm saying too. QPR, Bristol, Wolves, Cardiff, Norwich. We show our strengths in one and not the reverse. I don't care that we didn't have Grealish at times, or Kodjia. We had the strongest group of individuals, we didn't have the strongest team. I think that goes to either Fulham or Wolves. Perhaps Cardiff if you take the perspective that they had the weakest group of individuals of the top four, and what they achieved. I will have to disagree with you regarding tactics. They are a form of strategy and are not dependent on your opponent, necessarily. It is by definition an action or strategy that is carefully planned to achieve a specific end. So really all Bruce's decisions need be taken in to account, not exclusively how he sets up against an opponent and why. And this is where he lacks for me, tactically. We all have off days, the players, against QPR that day might've been outfought. Bruce, for me, spent money on good individuals, but failed to make the most of them in a team setting, at times failing to put together team performances indicative of the quality of cogs in the wheel. It wasn't fully operational. Bristol and Wolves, we saw how dominant this group could be against the top competitors. Burton we showed intent. Middlesbrough we showed tactical nous and nullified them well, and scored a goal, enough. But for large parts of the season this team failed to show me they were a cut above. I'm not calling Bruce terrible, as I've said I backed him all season and had confidence in getting promoted under him. But I did so on the basis of being a supportive supporter and how strong our squad was in comparison to the rest, I also knew Bruce would compete. But I saw nothing from him that would suggest improvement on his flaws and it was a bit of a slog. The sets we played were nothing inspiring. Credit to him though, we did grow as a team, to the point of being the 4th best in the league. Nothing dramatically poor about that. Blips and plateaus are inevitable and perhaps with a bit more luck, another factor, we might've gone up.

You're on the right track. "If you don't have the sun in your eyes, you ain't been hoofin' hard enough!" Seriously though, the most frustrating aspect last season was the contrast in performances and results and our indecision to get on the front foot and really drive a game. POF first and second half a prime example. Absolutely dismal first half only to have the better second half and no one could've said we didn't deserve a goal or two had it gone in. Our squad was the strongest in the division, by some margin, yet you wouldn't of guessed it in a lot of matches, even matches we bagged the three points in. Cardiff and Wolves were better across the season and Fulham, once their team found it's feet not only finished in a way that surmounted us during the home and away, showed the work they had put in on tactical approach first half in the POF, where we, true to form, were largely reliant on the individual showmanship that our squad possessed at this level when we decided to join the game that was underway, a Jack Grealish masterclass run our best effort, most impressive anyway. Yet it was Fulham who knocked it about as a team, worked a high percentage shot, took the lead and ultimately won the fixture.

Go on. It would be unwise to cling to false hope. Part of what caught me off guard about you was your ruthless questioning of Deisler123 and desire to grasp what was happening to such detail. Admirable, and only highlights my ignorance in the way I was unsure of the motivation behind it. And, thanks, same to you.

You know I remembered that recommendation as I was making that post. Bielsa has proven he is the real deal, whereas McCleish never has. But you're right, opinions can be worth very little, no matter who they're spouted by. Edit: I've gone back on my word of no more Bielsa discussion. Look guys, if you haven't picked up on it yet, I'm a bit of a fan. I really did not expect Leeds to be picking him up.

Basketball, sorry. That one's gone over my head, but I'm going to assume you're having a light dig lol And no, far from it. I've enjoyed a lot of success through it though, not that you're interested I just wanted to highlight that watching videos of Brentford isn't beneath anyone who's taking the job, which is what I thought you to be suggesting.

This will be my last post related to Bielsa in this thread. That's exactly the kind of thing he is renowned for, he even gets his players to do it, there's a story about how he won over one of his more reluctant players in adoptiing his approach to opposition analysis, that shows he is not only thorough with tactical approach but able to win over players who don't appreciate the extra work load and intensity that Bielsa operates with. Instead of an attitude problem kicking off and conflict ensuing, Bielsa managed to show this player the benefits of a bit of studying as well as putting the work in on the training ground. Also, why does he need to have a library related to Aston Villa? He watches football, the world game, and despite being very headstrong has done pretty well in it so far, better than Bruce. He would be watching Brentford if he needed to. Shit, I play semi professionally and I have to arrive early to watch videos of my opponent that my coach has selected. So if Bielsa is obsessive as they say, I'm guessing that's exactly how he's spending his Friday night if he were to join the Villa.

In my short time as a supporter, we've had a long series of leadership who just weren't up to the task. A bit of nutty ingenuity mixed with competence is exactly what we need. He's called El Loco because he has libraries of football videos and watches games of opponents religiously. Stuff like that. He's obsessive. Guardiola, the most high profile manager of recent times, is telling you Bielsa's the best in the world and you'd say no thanks?

If it is true that he is a target for Spurs, and they plan to land him in their midfield, even on the bench, that goes to show you what he's worth. Eriksen, Alli, Dier, Lamela, Sissoko, Wanyama, Son, Dembele, Moura and Winks. You don't walk in to that midfield worth less than 40 million or thereabouts. Not unless the club you're poaching from is in dire form and hand is forced.

Are you referring to Bielsa? I couldn't be bothered explaining to you why he's a top football brain and good manager. I will just point out that he's actually been in two major cup finals in the last 6 years, losing to Atletico and Barcelona, although managing to knock out Man Utd along the way, beating them in both legs. His walking out of his last three clubs is a bit worrying but I have no insight as to what transpired there.

This post has made my day, which I'm surprised about to be honest as it's not been a bad one otherwise. The fact you are saying you have it on good word that Grealish's future may be in his own hands instead of forced by the clubs plight gives me hope for Xia yet. Excellent, excellent news. I don't need to explain to anyone the significance of retaining talent like Jack's.

WTF!? Leeds are going to get Bielsa? I've wanted him for Villa for years, while we were in the PL. The stories I've read about Bielsa make me weep with joy. My father, in discussion about my own career ambitions has always told me, "You have to be a little bit mad to become great" Bielsa, both analytical and obsessive. Yet dignified. Is aptly coined El Loco. Pretty confident Guardiola has called him the best in the world.

"Fielding half the pitch with strikers when you're behind and struggling to impose yourself on the game as it is, will swing momentum in your favour. Strikers = goals. Build up play = poppycock. Consider this deeply." Excerpt from Steve Bruce's, Way of Strategy.

Bruce is definitely not the long term prospect for me, either. We do need identity, and I would put character, integrity and of course athletic/footballing proficiency as the attributes to be focused on. I would like us to start with coaching that allows for flexibility and fluidity in style, instead of a dogmatic approach to attacking or defensive football. Barca's recent greatness was kicked off with attractive, front foot, attacking football from Rijkaard, and peaked with the Spanish influence of 'tiki taka'. Both Rijkaard and Bruce Lee say you should never try and emulate or copy another or something from the past, and I agree with their philosophy. Legacy and heritage is built by constant effort and the ability to adapt and triumph the challenges that face you. Rather than by relying on some doctrine or dogmatic approach to an endeavor. So I think I would have to disagree with the notion to play the same formation and style from ground up. Unless you simply mean that all age groups at the club need to be practicing in a way where they can take the next step with relative ease rather than pandering to the different demands of different coaches and methodology. I will share this story as I think it appropriate, I play basketball semi professionally and also coached at state level. I played and coached for this one club that had it's tactics set in stone, it was called, 'turnouts', it was required of me to implement and run with this system all season, club policy. I worked it as a player and a coach. Second game of coaching and the opposition starts chanting 'turnouts' before the game during warmup. My players are disheartened by this. We go on to lose nearly every game by an average of 20-30 points until I stepped down as coach. I have won grand finals as a player and coach, both youth and mens. It wasn't my ability to coach the system or a lack of player application. The tactics were just mediocre and failed to create space, draw the defense or create meaning movement off the ball. Never have I been so disillusioned with the sport in my life than when I was playing during that clubs persistence with 'turnouts'. Like this Villa Engine business, it's great to want to have an identity but to make it successful involves being able to draw on a myriad of experience and applying it with cohesion so it's competitive as a bare minimum. We need to have a focus on employing people with the right qualities, as well as having a foundation and philosophy as a club. I see Xia as someone with a lot of the right motives, and to a lesser degree attributes to lead us forward. Bruce, no. If Xia can pay attention to coming good on his word through diligence and patience rather than the impulse that we've seen, he might work out .

Going to disagree on this one sidcow. Onomah is 21, far from the finished article. I don't think he's talent has ever been for creativity in the final third, we put him there, don't ask me why. A coach having confidence in you, or a change in team, can have fairly profound impact on how an individual performs.

I had high hopes for Xia. I think he's a bright spark and a genuine man with his own style of integrity, by that I mean to say that I don't know how legitimate his business dealings are but I think he wants to serve the people at the club well as well as bringing himself success. Definitely a bit over zealous, but I find that endearing and with the right guidance could be an asset rather than a hindrance. I have no evidence, but I suspect that Di Matteo was appointed on the basis of being a champions league winner, rather than a comprehensive plan and analytical approach to bringing about success. I believe that Bruce was appointed on the basis of being a proven promotion winner, again rather than for a detailed and inspired resurrection plan for the clubs football. And that is where I think Xia has let himself down with over enthusiasm. If he could contain himself a little more he has the right intentions for the club and I wonder if with the right people around him if he might be able to take us to a European placing one day. Whether he can make those appointments and ensure the club is structured in a way that can cope with the challenges it faces is yet to be seen.

Whether or not I agree with you, I find myself having a lot of respect for the way you post. I don't blame Bruce for recruiting in a way that put the club in jeopardy, that's not his responsibility in my view, but the fact that he went ahead and did it anyway shows a lack of initiative and ingenuity in my mind. He might've even reduced the wage bill considerably, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't as much a part of an over spending culture like his predecessors, it just means less so. I take it that you haven't taken note of my posts previously where I clearly state that Xia and Wyness are the ones responsible for expenditure and Bruce is not to blame for putting his best foot forward and using what his superiors allowed him. I will repeat though, just because he's not at fault, doesn't mean he has inspired any confidence. Look, I've done a 180 on Bruce, so who am I to say with any conviction I know what I am talking about. Like you, I am simply expressing my perspective to the discussion. My original stance was that he had assembled a good enough squad for us to challenge for promotion, and on that basis he was doing a good enough job considering all that had come before. There wasn't a day or a week that went by where I wasn't behind Bruce. I still understand why I held this view, and why others would, I just think it was short sighted if not blind or deluded to think that the way we went about it was developing any foundation to how we can succeed and rebuild our identity. If that was the Villa Engine it lasted all of one season, congratulations on the success' that were had along the way, and even though we missed out on our goal, we can look forward to starting from square one again. I'm sorry but I hope for better for this club and think it is obtainable @TRO

I think that flatters him a bit. And believe me I see the good he has done too. It's just that the way he was allowed to assemble his squad meant that we put the club in jeopardy. Something any manager should be looking to minimise. Regardless of what the owner allows for. Wolves finished I think 15th the season before and Cardiff were 12th from memory. Fulham also managed to put together a team ultimately superior to ours without risking so much. There's a saying in poker that goes, "I would rather lose with the right hand, than win with the wrong" And it's said, because over time, the right hand is the profitable one. I can guarantee you Cortese at Southampton would align himself with such a philosophy. I'm glad we had a season that saw success return to this club and that we employed people with the talent and character to compete. That said I don't believe Bruce gave much reason as to why he should be the man to lead our football, or why he should be backed again when the time is right. Apart from Terry, a number of managers could have recruited as well as we did, I would think it possible, probable even, that others might've done better.

Not entirely. When you have a manager come out and say his club should be breaking the bank for you, you know you're going to get your chances at that club. That said, apparently Onomah is highly rated by Pochettino too.

You don't come across as though you are knocking him, just providing a different perspective on what prospective buyers might want to pay. I think you have to understand my bias here. 20 million seemed like a lot for Ashley Young? He's still starting for them, and I would have preferred they kept their money. Same goes for the others mentioned. These players are so valuable to a club like ours. As I said previously, I think Jack will surpass the feats of the players I mentioned. You're right though, Jack is unproven at Premier League level. And that's the same reason Liverpool got Coutinho for 8.5 million. Jack won't command the fee we want. Like Coutinho though watch Jack's market value absolutely sky rocket once he comes of age.

I live in Australia mate, so it doesn't impact me in the same way it would the locals who bleed Claret and Blue and travel home and away out of their own pocket. That said I understand fully how important a functional sporting association can be for the community, as a semi professional myself I've spent my whole life around sporting clubs. It's really disheartening to read how cynical you are toward the people who have tried to set up shop at your club. Both ideally and practically, football clubs are for the people and not shysters looking for business pursuits. So I am sorry that your club has seen such a lack of leadership and lost its way as a consequence. There's obviously still a lot of pride and a great heritage that comes with Villa. That said for nearly the entirety of my time as a supporter the club has struggled to compete. Nothing in comparison to what you have endured but I can empathise with wanting what's best for your club whilst watching it deteriorate.

Thanks for the offer of sympathy, your message doesn't inspire much hope, so condolences right back at you for what's evidently been tough times.