A'Villan

I didn't intend to suggest that O'Hare was anywhere near Grealish's ability and influence. Of the players we have available though I would put O'Hare down as our next best AM, and capable of competing at championship level. You wouldn't?

Yeah, would have to agree, now you've reminded me about who's remaining. I think the shock of all this has me absent minded and perhaps a bit delusional on the promotion push front. We still have some of the best players in the division, if they can rekindle some form, even after the exodus of players mentioned. Shame about O'Hare, thought he was really bright and want to see more of him. Wolves were 15th before winning it and Cardiff 12th before finishing 2nd. Goes to show that a well drilled outfit can achieve in the championship. I know our situation is at the other end of the spectrum with everything going on, but if we end up keeping the likes of Hourihane, Lansbury, Bree, Adomah, Hogan and McCormack we really should be looking at competing.

Okay this is obviously a lot worse than I thought. Beggars belief. And we were calling for Wolves to be investigated for compromising the integrity of the game? This makes a lot more sense to me then the fears of fighting relegation to League One, admittedly I know nothing of the situation though. If we were only to lose Kodjia and Grealish, we should still be able to mount a promotion push with the squad we have. O'Hare comes in for Grealish, we have enough strikers to cover for Kodjia.

While I think the blame must land at Tony and Wyness' feet, a more astute manager might've had the thought, I'll spend what I need and no more, save the rest for a rainy day. Instead he's spent an astronomical amount on players he didn't even utilise. On you're second point, you're right, he could have done it on half of what he spent, half of what he spent sat on the bench. I backed him all season. After the loss to Cardiff, you name it, I backed him to get it right. I was even open to the idea of him having a season in the PL. He'd guided Sunderland to 10th, won promotions, hell after the rut we've had maybe he was the right man to stabilise us. For a few seasons. Maybe new club with what was afforded him might show us something we hadn't seen before. I don't hold it against him, but he just doesn't have enough going for him to take us forward, I'm afraid. Credit to him for a fairly successful campaign in comparison to where we were at, but that's the best I have to say about him. Other than I like the guy and wish him all the best, The consequences of our plight do not fall on his shoulders, the football does though, and I'd be very surprised to see us inspired to anything worthy of celebration again under Bruce, I think he had an opportunity to show us what he was about and came up lacking, and not just because we missed out on promotion, for a number of reasons.

O'Hare and Davis are both talented enough to compete at championship level imo, both look promising, O'Hare for his vision and creativity and Davis for his strength and hold up play. So we've got that going for us, I thought they could and should have featured more last season but we insisted on bringing in every striker to have scored double digits in the championship. I don't see us attaining £45- 50 mil from player sales though. Dreaming if we're hoping for that for Grealish and Chester alone, despite what they should be going for. Loan market will need to be our friend, something which Bruce has done reasonably well in the past, whether he can do it on a budget I don't know. I have very little clue as to what we'll be working with next season, but I don't see why we have to be completely shackled by our financial plight. Surely we're going to retain some of the players we have in the squad now, correct? Some of the most successful players to have played in the division in recent times. Our bench would have walked in to a lot of mid-table teams as starters, are we really in such a mess that we're in danger of relegation as a result of the playing squad being poor? Starting the season with a points deficit would be catastrophic, I understand that, but should we avoid that, surely we put up a squad that can fight each game with a chance?

I never heard him say a word of that, but I can't say it surprises. Early on he was very quick to point out the clubs position as dismal to negate and deflect from his responsibilities. Whatever the arrangement between Xia, Wyness and Bruce has turned out to be farcical and I imagine it might've come undone pretty quickly had we made a return to the Premier League anyway. It is still a concern for me, not that we weren't promoted, rather that there's people deciding the clubs direction who may want success through Aston Villa but aren't taking the time to define how it's going to be achieved in a way that benefits the club and not just their self interest. I hope nothing malicious has happened between Xia and Wyness but both have failed to produce on their word, or for the clubs future going in to the next few years, as it is. It's going to take leadership, ingenuity, planning and creativity to take this club up to where it wants to be. Not just the same old tried and tested. Whoever does it will come under heavy scrutiny and they will need to take ownership of any problems we face. I'm not sure that's Bruce, not in the slightest. Admittedly I understand very little about the financial side of our club and what's happened. I was hoping that comments along the lines of the club dissipating were either ill-informed or overreactions. What this whole debacle highlights for me though is that we, as a club, aren't really in a position where our reputation and history alone will save us, nor should it. It's great that there's such heritage and that we are a cornerstone and mainstay in English football but the past really doesn't exist anymore when you think about it. Like the wake of a ship it fades off. It's the same as the future, it doesn't exist. Unless it's happening here and now it's not really in existence, is it? It's all well and good for Xia to say we'll succeed in 5 years, or Wyness to spout about a Villa Engine, Bruce to talk about mending the relationship with the fans. As a collective all three have failed to deliver on our immediate needs, and in my opinion, neglected the club. Heritage and stature are fine for sentiment but are worthless unless there is a legacy that is continued and effort invested in maintaining it. You can't just prop yourself up on reputation. Something which I think the hierarchy are guilty of, it appears like they didn't really investigate what is required now in order to address our situation, rather just rely on the clubs remaining clout to essentially further exhaust us and any leverage that we have remaining.

Those figures are nuts. Absolute madness if correct. What is really eating at me though, is this supposedly long term goal, the 'Villa Engine'. What was it meant to be? Who was overseeing its implementation and when did it start, if at all? There just seems to be no end to things that are tearing the club limb from limb. From the little I can gather, a bitter and toxic dispute between owner and CEO is ensuing over god knows what, and we're left without a plan, again. I don't like what I'm reading about Wyness at all but will take it with a pinch of salt until things are more concrete.

He was two goals short of promotion in a 49 game season. His failure will mean we don't play our football in the Premier League next season. A pretty big disappointment given what was afforded him. That said, unless Xia had some genius plan, with deals lined up and a complete change in direction to be implemented, I'm guessing it's safe to say Bruce is not responsible for the predicament we face now, or the fact that his superior was choosing to gamble on knifes edge. Had Bruce got us promoted, many would not of even credit him or praise him for his efforts. It was simply an expectation he needed to fulfill. So on that point, I think it unfair that Bruce be accused of being culpable in decisions that were beyond him. If we are talking about fulfilling obligations. He could of voiced his concerns over the running of the club, and I think Bruce alluded to the importance of gaining promotion, so he was aware to some degree of the financial situation. Another reason he's done himself a disservice in the hope of retaining a stint as Aston Villa's manager. Bottom line though is Bruce as a coach should be free to back himself and use what he is offered, those above him should be responsible for worrying about how much, when and why. He's far from great, and ideally I would like to see us with a manager who has a higher football IQ and a bit more ingenuity about them, but Bruce cops way too much flak. He was never going to turn down the Villa job and I can honestly thank him for a few things last season, despite ultimately not being good enough. He has shown throughout the season that despite being able to manage at this level he is not a cut above or able to rectify shortcomings he can control and I highly doubt we will see anything new from him. That's where it ends for me though. I sit on a mental health board and am responsible for interviewing psychiatrists and psychologists who are applying for work in our organisation. I try my best to ascertain what qualities they bring to the table and take some consideration in weighing up why I think they are suitable or not. In their minds they are putting their best foot forward and trying to progress in their profession, just like Bruce has done. It is my job to scrutinise over whether they are going to be a good fit. In order to do this I need to have an understanding of the environment and people involved. If I don't I make a poor decision and therefore appointment. It would seem Xia has made some errors in judgement, despite his intentions, and that is what is ultimately going to set us back. Wyness could be equally to blame, I don't know, it would definitely seem like there has been a lack of trust amongst our hierarchy which has added to the debacle.

We got 20 million for Ashley Young, and that was back then. Delph is playing for a title winning side. Benteke went for 30 million. Grealish is only 22 and he could surpass them all in skill. I rate him higher than most, I really think he could be David Silva level if he keeps working hard. I can promise you, the potential is huge for this kid, and I have to wonder how often you have seen him play? Coutinho was raw playing at Inter at the age Jack is now, he had some obvious skill and talent but didn't impose himself on games like he does now. He went to Liverpool for 8.5million but look at what he's worth a few years later, 100 million. 40million for Jack isn't ridiculous, I wouldn't want that money in exchange. Even though we will never see anything near it until he has proven his worth to the world.

I like the sentiment and I am with you on that one. However the world is a vast place and is made up of all sorts of possibilities and outcomes. I think our identity has taken a battering that will take some serious leadership, guidance, commitment and most importantly honest intentions in regard to building a club fans can be proud to be a part of, before we see any real success.

The exact opposite of what Southampton did under Cortese. The 'it'll come good when we win' philosophy can be a bit blind to the difficulties of competition. I'd like to hear what exactly this long term and sustainable thinking Xia had in mind was. I'm sure it's not going the way he anticipated, I just am not privy to any detail in regards to all this. I don't want to slate the guy, I have no interest in that, I just want to know what is happening to my club, why and who's responsible.

I think he actually believed his own hype, back then at least. Di Matteo had won the Champions League with Chelsea and his appointment was qualified, at least in my mind, by this feat. Tony thought he could wing it by employing a better standard of personnel than the teams around him and the cash that came with success would be enough to ride the waves. Unfortunately like any competitive endeavor the margins are fine and our owner has seemingly misjudged what was required of him and those around him. He spoke of long term and sustainability but he seems to of gambled in reality, as soon as his Champions League winner went bust he chased his chips and went for broke without a guaranteed holding or strategy. Or even people he can trust around him. This is just my take on it, I'm trying to make sense of the situation except I am so far removed.

Not entirely. Whether financial difficulty is true or engineered we have yet another toxic environment which is causing rot at the club. That is going to have repercussions of its own and depending on how we recover from that will potentially determine how we fare on and off the pitch. So disappointing after we turned a corner as a club and had a good crack at promotion. To have serious conflict of interest at the very top is the last thing the club needs. I know Bruce has some flaws that don't seem to be changing in this lifetime, but he has character and enough competency to have obtained a fair amount of success in this division. He's not going to come up with anything revolutionary but his attitude and likeability alone might get players working hard for him. Team spirit could be paramount to our season.

So I've read and commented on in his thread. Such a kick in the nuts if it's the case. I'd have every ounce of confidence in him to break in to the Spurs starting lineup though. Young, Delph and Benteke all fairly recent players who went on to enjoy relatively successful times at top 6 clubs. Grealish could surpass any of them.

Stranger things have happened. Southampton and Leicester are both recent examples of underdog success. To a lesser extent Norwich under Lambert. One things for sure, the ethos around the club would be far from the reaches of anyone purely profit driven. Even Barca went 6 years without a trophy before Joan Laporta took charge and they built a team under Rijkaard based largely on academy graduates and philosophy. Having Ronaldinho and Eto'o helped but they absolutely dominated world football largely with players they developed themselves and a cohesive philosophy. That's why it is so important we keep Grealish and build a team around him. Someone who will play for the shirt equal to or above the pay cheque is more than romantic, on a practical level it's quite significant too. On the flipside having fans own a club doesn't guarantee successful operation. We'd need people to really invest in what they're taking on.

This seems nasty and whatever the finer details there has obviously been a lack of trust and integrity amidst. I think those pointing out that the truth of our situation is yet to reveal itself have a very valid point. Those refraining from casting blame or judgement without more evidence or facts are doing the club a favour by keeping things in perspective. There has been a considerable lack of success in any form for us recently, so it's refreshing that some supporters are at least practicing sound judgement.

Not very detailed and speculative, as is the majority of football reporting. However it's more insight than I had. Thanks for posting.

It would seem like his ambitions are greater than his means. I too, could see us climbing out of our rut, and joining European competition. With the right guidance this club certainly has the potential for it. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. I actually thought we had a winner in Tony Xia. His enthusiasm whilst over zealous and borderline unrealistic was the kind belonging to someone who may take the time to get to know the club, it's people, problems and help build a new atmosphere and culture of success. I think I mistook his outspoken confidence as a sign of genuine competency with the situation at hand. Now it's looking like Di Matteo was Tony's idea for Champions League success

Spurs can do one. They have one of the youngest, most talented midfields in the country. Last time I checked they could be successful in midfield for another 10 odd years without needing to add. I can't blame them for coming in for him, Jack's class and is worthy of a future at any club. Just shits me if we're going to lose a bit of Aston Villa's pride to a Spurs team that is competing in a way I imagined for us. Just highlights the misery of recent years, and I say that also being grateful and optimistic for the club. We're not gaining ground losing players like Jack to what should be our immediate rivals. Especially if our concerns are financial rather than how the player fits. That's no longer football but enterprise and commodity.

Must say I'm surprised by all of this. What a shock to the system. I would like us to be driven by an owner who understands the structure and culture needed to produce athletes and men of good character. Give us someone with an interest in those two qualities and we will have to worry less about money as our club will be able to compete through cohesive philosophy and proficient footballers.

Not going to jump to any conclusions just yet. Xia made some bold claims and I doubt that they were entirely hot air on his behalf. Things are obviously more complicated than I can fathom, but I highly doubt based off his behaviour that we are in a serious mess. Why I think that? Because he would have to be either very poorly informed or a complete opportunist on a gamble. I would say the latter more likely than the former, but I don't believe either to be true yet.

I saw the rumours in my usual place of disappointment, BBC's Gossip Column. In any case I don't really know what this means for Aston Villa. I do know that I bought in to Tony's claims of Europe, although I didn't think it would come to fruition in the time he claimed. I'm with @TRO though, just because we assume it to be a certain way, it ain't necessarily so. Who's to truly know if new ownership won't be inspired by more effective thinking?

I've read a bit of empathy for Liverpool's goalkeeper, which is fine, by my oh my, that first goal. Criminal. Thought Liverpool were hard working and resolute even after they lost Salah. It took two keeper errors and a worldy to beat them.

Yes, I know they were PL when they attained his services. To retain a manager like Benitez for a season in the championship is still quite a coup though. I didn't consider the financial side to it all, I am ignorant to it. I should probably look in to it to better gauge where the club should be directing itself.

I don't really want to wade in to this part of the discussion, but I will add this. If Newcastle can get Benitez in the championship, then you are correct @vreitti we should be looking at managers of a high calibre, whether they decide to come or not is their challenge to face.