PaulC Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Did ox know it was going wide? Of course not or he wouldn't have done it, the fact is that he knew he was cheating, he knew he was trying to deny a goal, it was a red every day of the week. That's not how it works. The rule doesn't say "intent to deny a goal scoring opportunity." No. It saysdenying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area) Oxlade Chamberlain did what he did because he thought the ball was going in. So in his mind he was denying the opposing team a goal It was deliberate, but it wasn't denying them a goal because the ball was going wide. It doesn't matter that he didn't know that or what he thought. It's not a red. I can understand why the ref gave a red, because it's tough to tell in real time. Makes no sense. The ref cannot judge the path of the ball, what if a shot has a curl before it is hand-balled? So at the time of the incident the ball is going three yards out, but if that ball was allowed to continue it would have curled in the corner. Then what? It didnt though did it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It wouldn't have curled in, by the logic a handball anywhere on the field is denying a goal scoring opportunity because a gust of wind could've taken the ball into the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonst83 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Did ox know it was going wide? Of course not or he wouldn't have done it, the fact is that he knew he was cheating, he knew he was trying to deny a goal, it was a red every day of the week. That's not how it works. The rule doesn't say "intent to deny a goal scoring opportunity." No. It saysdenying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area) Oxlade Chamberlain did what he did because he thought the ball was going in. So in his mind he was denying the opposing team a goal It was deliberate, but it wasn't denying them a goal because the ball was going wide. It doesn't matter that he didn't know that or what he thought. It's not a red. I can understand why the ref gave a red, because it's tough to tell in real time. All this does is encourage cheating, ungentlemanly conduct and a lack of sporting etiquette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Arsenal were punished more than enough to be fair. if he hadn't have handled it: no goal: no red card and 11 v 11 with a slight chance of getting back into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It wouldn't have curled in, by the logic a handball anywhere on the field is denying a goal scoring opportunity because a gust of wind could've taken the ball into the net. I am not talking about this particular shot, obviously, I am talking in general for such decisions. Your example makes no sense either, as you probably knew when you wrote it, because we are talking about clear shots with one single intention of going for goal. This shot didn't go in the goal and it wasn't going there, but like I asker earlier, what about shots that are stopped intentionally right after leaving the boot of the striker? The referee knows the striker tries to score, the defender handballs on purpose to hinder the obvious goal and there is no goalkeeper to save it. The shot, stopped after just a few yards, it would sometimes be impossible to know if that shot was going in the middle of the goal or one inch outside the post. And what about a lob? What if a defender reaches his hand up to stop it? Should a forensic analysis take place to determine if the ball would have gone over the defender, hit the ground and then maybe bounce over the bar? My point is; trying to stop a shot inside the area with your hand is a penalty and a red card every day of the week, because the defender is clearly trying to stop a shot he thinks is going in the net. Where the ball would eventually end up is a bit pointless in my honest and humble opinion. It would be nice to see a referee comment on the issue, because I don't know the answer 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Did ox know it was going wide? Of course not or he wouldn't have done it, the fact is that he knew he was cheating, he knew he was trying to deny a goal, it was a red every day of the week.That's not how it works. The rule doesn't say "intent to deny a goal scoring opportunity."No. It saysdenying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area) Oxlade Chamberlain did what he did because he thought the ball was going in. So in his mind he was denying the opposing team a goalIt was deliberate, but it wasn't denying them a goal because the ball was going wide. It doesn't matter that he didn't know that or what he thought. It's not a red. I can understand why the ref gave a red, because it's tough to tell in real time. Yes thats right, it doesn't matter what was in Oxlade Chamberlain's mind, the fact that it wasn't denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring chance is what matters. The ref got it wrong and even if he had of sent the right man off the FA would have still done rescinded the red card Absolutely nonsense, that red would not have been rescinded had it not been for the publicity of the mistaken identity. It was a red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Did ox know it was going wide? Of course not or he wouldn't have done it, the fact is that he knew he was cheating, he knew he was trying to deny a goal, it was a red every day of the week.That's not how it works. The rule doesn't say "intent to deny a goal scoring opportunity."No. It saysdenying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area) Oxlade Chamberlain did what he did because he thought the ball was going in. So in his mind he was denying the opposing team a goalIt was deliberate, but it wasn't denying them a goal because the ball was going wide. It doesn't matter that he didn't know that or what he thought. It's not a red. I can understand why the ref gave a red, because it's tough to tell in real time. Yes thats right, it doesn't matter what was in Oxlade Chamberlain's mind, the fact that it wasn't denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring chance is what matters. The ref got it wrong and even if he had of sent the right man off the FA would have still done rescinded the red card Absolutely nonsense, that red would not have been rescinded had it not been for the publicity of the mistaken identity. It was a red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Did ox know it was going wide? Of course not or he wouldn't have done it, the fact is that he knew he was cheating, he knew he was trying to deny a goal, it was a red every day of the week.That's not how it works. The rule doesn't say "intent to deny a goal scoring opportunity."No. It saysdenying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area) Oxlade Chamberlain did what he did because he thought the ball was going in. So in his mind he was denying the opposing team a goalIt was deliberate, but it wasn't denying them a goal because the ball was going wide. It doesn't matter that he didn't know that or what he thought. It's not a red. I can understand why the ref gave a red, because it's tough to tell in real time. All this does is encourage cheating, ungentlemanly conduct and a lack of sporting etiquette. Seriously? It's not like guys are going to intentionally handball shots going wide and give up a penalty all the time if you don't give a red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonst83 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Did ox know it was going wide? Of course not or he wouldn't have done it, the fact is that he knew he was cheating, he knew he was trying to deny a goal, it was a red every day of the week. That's not how it works. The rule doesn't say "intent to deny a goal scoring opportunity." No. It saysdenying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area) Oxlade Chamberlain did what he did because he thought the ball was going in. So in his mind he was denying the opposing team a goal It was deliberate, but it wasn't denying them a goal because the ball was going wide. It doesn't matter that he didn't know that or what he thought. It's not a red. I can understand why the ref gave a red, because it's tough to tell in real time. All this does is encourage cheating, ungentlemanly conduct and a lack of sporting etiquette. Seriously? It's not like guys are going to intentionally handball shots going wide and give up a penalty all the time if you don't give a red Perhaps not, but Oxlade was trying to cheat the referee in the first place - i.e. act as if he was attempting to head the ball and now because, after many replays from many angles they have deemed it not worthy of a red card and three game ban simply because, by sheer luck, the ball happened to be going wide. Oxlade had no idea it was going wide, he thought it was going in the net and that's why he tried to stop the ball going in - that is cheating and should always deserve a red. (In my opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Chamberlain's red should not have been rescinded, he was trying to deny a goal scoring opportunity with the use of his hand and whilst it was going wide he was hand balling it with the intention of stopping a goal being scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 That's why it's punished by a penalty... He didn't get off scot free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Chamberlain's red should not have been rescinded, he was trying to deny a goal scoring opportunity with the use of his hand and whilst it was going wide he was hand balling it with the intention of stopping a goal being scored. Once again, the rule doesn't mention intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 If the rules say it's only a red when the ball is heading towards the goal, what you gonna do? But if the Referee had sent Oxlade off, I don't think the FA would have rescinded the red because it turns out it was going wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Chamberlain's red should not have been rescinded, he was trying to deny a goal scoring opportunity with the use of his hand and whilst it was going wide he was hand balling it with the intention of stopping a goal being scored. Yeah but he didn't. If Rooney goes through on goal on Saturday and Baker TRIES to hack him down, being the last man, but misses the tackle and Rooney's shot is saved, Baker wouldn't be sent off because he tried to foul him. Or if Baker THINKS he's the last man and hacks Rooney down anyway, but turns out Vlaar was covering, Baker wouldn't get sent off because he THOUGHT he was the last man. The FA are right, in this instance If the rules say it's only a red when the ball is heading towards the goal, what you gonna do? But if the Referee had sent Oxlade off, I don't think the FA would have rescinded the red because it turns out it was going wide. But that's exactly what they've done...? Edited March 25, 2014 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 the red card for me has glossed over the big talking point and that is Wenger made a balls of his tactics. Podolski and GIroud probably had about 10 touches between them and both aren't good enough for Arsenal level. Cazorla was also dreadful. Ozil seems to be getting al ot of heat from the press and im sure if he had a game like them 3 he would have been slaughtered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2014 I actually rate Giroud pretty highly, but he's Darren Bent-ish. In that he totally relies on service. He's never going to grab a game and win it by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I think Giroud is a good player but before his "affair" he had a much better work rate and covered a lot more ground but since coming back into the team he has looked like he doesn't care. think he has lost faith in Wenger trust and maybe vice versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Did ox know it was going wide? Of course not or he wouldn't have done it, the fact is that he knew he was cheating, he knew he was trying to deny a goal, it was a red every day of the week. very much this ox should have a 1 match ban, think if the ref had got the decision right in the 1st place then the ban would be upheld, but instead the FA have swept the mess under the carpet, no one getting a ban is an easy way out for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) I don't see why people think that? The ball wasn't going in, it wasn't denying a goal scoring opportunity. Intent isn't in the rules for that. A deliberate handball is a yellow. A deliberate handball that denies a goalscoring opportunity is a red card. This was the former. If the FA had upheld the ban, then they'd have been wrong. Edited March 25, 2014 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 If the rules say it's only a red when the ball is heading towards the goal, what you gonna do? But if the Referee had sent Oxlade off, I don't think the FA would have rescinded the red because it turns out it was going wide. But that's exactly what they've done...? I mean if Oxlade had been sent off and there was no question this week of mistaken identities and so the incident wouldn't be under so much scrutiny then I don't think the red card would have been rescinded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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