Jon Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I refer the honourable gentlemen to Sir Michael of Skinner, and the dumbing down (or just plain misuse) of the English language: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 But I don't see any harm in some of the other trends - for example, the one we were discussing earlier (none was/were) That one I'm less of a stickler on because as you say, while it is wrong and bad grammar, it doesn't add ambiguity. But just from my point of view I'm interested in the 'right way' to say things and I like to know why something is the way it is. There is no objective "right" or "wrong" way to say things. There absolutely is an 'objective' way to say the right thing. They're called rules and they're there whether we choose to follow them or not. You're saying there is no subjective right or wrong way to say them because you would rather leave it down to the person themselves to choose (subjectively) what they want to bother saying. Fair enough, I'll word it differently - there is an objective way to say the right thing. But it changes as time goes by, thanks to the never-ending efforts of peasants who "corrupt" the language. Always has been the case, always will be. Grammatical and spelling "errors" are constantly made, until they are widely accepted enough to be considered "proper." Hell, English probably came about in the first place because the Saxons, Vikings and Normans couldn't be arsed to speak their own languages properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2013 Yep, and again there are 2 important differences being discussed here. Changes and evolution that make sense and don't add ambiguity are fine. They happen and they should happen. Ones that create that dual-purpose ambiguity through nothing but laziness are awful and should be killed with fire. Out of curiosity legov. Have you found that your own English has improved through talking with us eejits on VillaTalk? Your English is perfect and I'm just wondering if the likes of Mike and his insatiable pedantry has anything to do with any fine-tuning you may have done Or were you already school-taught to that standard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) We need a definition for "right" :) Edited September 12, 2013 by legov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2013 Edit above. We need a definition for "right" :) "Current rules suggest that ..." as opposed to "Twitter/facebook general usage suggests that ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Out of curiosity legov. Have you found that your own English has improved through talking with us eejits on VillaTalk? Your English is perfect and I'm just wondering if the likes of Mike and his insatiable pedantry has anything to do with any fine-tuning you may have done Or were you already school-taught to that standard. Oh yes, absolutely I've even picked up some of your silly mannerisms. That said, I did go to good schools as a young kid - I suppose that fact played a part too. I can't remember much about my early childhood, but I think there were a lot of grammar drills. On top of all that, my ambition is to become an academic when I graduate. This means that I strive as much as possible to iron out grammatical errors in my writing - I often feel that I need to write grammatically in order to be respected as a writer. So another reason would be the fact that I nit-pick on my own grammar, a lot, because of my own ambition in life. This has nothing to do with my opinion that (by and large) linguistic evolution is harmless - it's purely a pragmatic decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2013 I've noticed the mannerisms/phrases/idiosyncrasies at times and had a laugh because I knew it was something you could only have picked up through talking on an (probably this) English-based forum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobisher Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I wish I had that schooling. I'm sure I would have detested it at the time, but what a solid basis for language learning it would have given me. I'm from a lost generation where grammar seemed to be, on the whole, ignored at school, and I still struggle with it to this day. Comma splicing. Other than that; not a bad effort. Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) I've noticed the mannerisms/phrases/idiosyncrasies at times and had a laugh because I knew it was something you could only have picked up through talking on an (probably this) English-based forum I never say them in real life Edit: Well, not entirely true, come to think of it. Edited September 12, 2013 by legov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2013 I never say them in real life I bet you've done it maybe once by accident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) I never say them in real life I bet you've done it maybe once by accident Oh yeah. Some British/Commonwealth mannerisms that have slipped into my speech: - Arse - Piss - FFS By no means exhaustive. Edit: That list doesn't make for good reading Edited September 12, 2013 by legov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2013 Well given that your location has recently changed, you're probably OK being more colloquial. Certainly (probably) more than you would have been in Singapore.EDIT : Sounds like you're a fan of Father Ted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Some of the words don't work when spoken with my accent, else I would use them in everyday speech a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2013 I wish I had that schooling. I'm sure I would have detested it at the time, but what a solid basis for language learning it would have given me. I'm from a lost generation where grammar seemed; on the whole; to be ignored at school and I still struggle with it to this day. Comma splicing. Other than that; not a bad effort.Where?Fewer commas and where's the semi-colon love, eh? Under-used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 EDIT : Sounds like you're a fan of Father Ted. Father who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2013 EDIT : Sounds like you're a fan of Father Ted. Father who? Father Ted. Surprised you've missed the references in here to date! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Thanks for asking me that question btw , BOF I love talking about my linguistic background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2013 Thanks for asking me that question btw , BOF I love talking about my linguistic background.TBH I was a little worried you'd maybe take it as being patronising when it wasn't supposed to be. I just trusted that you'd take it as it was intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Thanks for asking me that question btw , BOF I love talking about my linguistic background. TBH I was a little worried you'd maybe take it as being patronising when it wasn't supposed to be. I just trusted that you'd take it as it was intended You were complimenting my English ffs...why would I think you were being patronising? Edited September 12, 2013 by legov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2013 You were complimenting my English ffs...why would I think you were being patronising? The internet makes it easy for people to take offence. Had you been a different kind of person you might have taken it as a pat on the head when; as you say; it was a genuine compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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