SikhInTrinity Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 It's a problem because the current players commanding big wages give us sod all in output really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GarethRDR Posted June 25, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2013 Thought I'd throw up a couple of names that would seemingly fit the "profile" (such as there is) of obscure players we could look at for the creative midfielder role. All from "lesser" European leagues and all U-21 internationals with their respective countries... Robert Žulj Team - SV Ried Age - 21 Nationality - Austrian 12/13 Stats - 11 goals, 6 assists in 34 games Contracted - July 2014 Fun Facts - is no relation to either Zool, the Ninja of the Nth Dimension or Zuul, the Gatekeeper of Gozer === Domagoj Antolić Team - NK Lokomotiva Age - 22 Nationality - Croatian 12/13 Stats - 7 goals, 5 assists in 29 games Contracted - July 2015 Fun Facts - Can play on the right wing and holding role, packs own lunches === Mislav Oršić Team - Inter Zaprešić Age - 20 Nationality - Croatian 12/13 Stats - 12 goals, 5 assists in 33 games Contracted - July 2014 Fun Facts - Ambidextrous; good with both feet and can draw a circle on an Etch-a-Sketch === Petros Mantalos Team - Skoda Xanthi Age - 21Nationality - Greek 12/13 Stats - 4 goals, 7 assists in 28 games Contracted - July 2017 Fun Facts - Born in Komotini, which is Greek for "an alcohol beverage made from the ground beaks of wild Cormorants" 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 U forgot to put their position. for shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Would love to see Cheikhou Kouyate of Anderlect..He can play central defensive and central defensive midfielder, fits into what Lambert is doing perfectly!! Not heard of him only thing that would worry me is the DMC part, having way to much competiton and holding each other back, competition for places is brilliant but when you have to many you start to rotate a lot and teams need to gel and feel comfortable with each other. Looking at the way this is panning out we are exercising yet another sell to buy policy which confirms to me that Lerner is not going to invest what is needed to get us where we need to be anytime soon. I agree with that policy, why would you want to have a huge squad of players with 5/6 who won't get a look and soak up wages? We move them on have a slim line squad and use the wages and funds to develop further, it's not a one in one out kinda system we brought players in that PL knew he needed and then shipped out those who didnt fit the ethos he is trying to establish, it makes sense to me. Yes thats fine on paper but what if our targets are snapped up by someone else while we wait to move those remaining players deemed surplus to requirements. We are then left with players who aren't going to contribute anyway or certainly not our first choice targets. We have already got rid of players and their subsequent wages and the likelyhood is that both Bent and Given will also find pastures new. I had hoped that with the extra TV revenue plus the reduction in wages with players already sold or let go that we wouldn't see this policy again but it isn't panning out that way and i think Lerner has done a very nice job indeed of brainwashing some of the fan base into thinking that sell to buy is once again acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) ^^ He said they were all creative mids. Edited June 25, 2013 by LondonLax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited)     I think it's more of a get people off the wage bill before adding more to it.Which is basically the same thing.  It's not really. I think it's clear that Lerner is willing to invest it's just that the wage bill is still a problem.If he's willing to invest then that should also encompass wages. You can't say that yeah i'm willing to to pay x for a player but not then prepared to pay the wages. He's continally trying to run this club on a Championship budget and it will eventually rebound on us as it nearly did last season. Edited June 25, 2013 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Would love to see Cheikhou Kouyate of Anderlect..He can play central defensive and central defensive midfielder, fits into what Lambert is doing perfectly!! Not heard of him only thing that would worry me is the DMC part, having way to much competiton and holding each other back, competition for places is brilliant but when you have to many you start to rotate a lot and teams need to gel and feel comfortable with each other. Looking at the way this is panning out we are exercising yet another sell to buy policy which confirms to me that Lerner is not going to invest what is needed to get us where we need to be anytime soon. I agree with that policy, why would you want to have a huge squad of players with 5/6 who won't get a look and soak up wages? We move them on have a slim line squad and use the wages and funds to develop further, it's not a one in one out kinda system we brought players in that PL knew he needed and then shipped out those who didnt fit the ethos he is trying to establish, it makes sense to me. Yes thats fine on paper but what if our targets are snapped up by someone else while we wait to move those remaining players deemed surplus to requirements. We are then left with players who aren't going to contribute anyway or certainly not our first choice targets. We have already got rid of players and their subsequent wages and the likelyhood is that both Bent and Given will also find pastures new. I had hoped that with the extra TV revenue plus the reduction in wages with players already sold or let go that we wouldn't see this policy again but it isn't panning out that way and i think Lerner has done a very nice job indeed of brainwashing some of the fan base into thinking that sell to buy is once again acceptable. But it isn't sell to buy at all. We are just being smart about it. We aren't stuck needing transfer money from bent and ireland to then go out and do business. They need to go, and other deals will be in place, just not wrapped up untill we have cleared out the deadwood, otherwise you are stuck with them again for another season whilst having brought in other players. Madness. Edited June 25, 2013 by villan_007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GarethRDR Posted June 25, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) U forgot to put their position. for shame. players we could look at for the creative midfielder role for the creative midfielder role creative midfielder role creative midfielder Edited June 25, 2013 by GarethRDR 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013     I think it's more of a get people off the wage bill before adding more to it. Which is basically the same thing.   It's not really. I think it's clear that Lerner is willing to invest it's just that the wage bill is still a problem. If he's willing to invest then that should also encompass wages. You can't say that yeah i'm willing to to pay x for a player but not then prepared to pay the wages. He's continally trying to run this club on a Championship budget and it will eventually rebound on us as it nearly did last season. He is willing to pay wages just not to players who dont perfom and can't be bothered turning up - ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Burn EDIT: @ lapalfan Edited June 25, 2013 by Rob182 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 25, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2013 It's not really. I think it's clear that Lerner is willing to invest it's just that the wage bill is still a problem.If he's willing to invest then that should also encompass wages. You can't say that yeah i'm willing to to pay x for a player but not then prepared to pay the wages.He's continally trying to run this club on a Championship budget and it will eventually rebound on us as it nearly did last season.You misunderstand. He is willing to invest in the new players and their wages. But in order to get the club out of the perilous position we've found ourselves in recently (and I think we all want that?), we need to get rid of the older players on the bumper wages. They're the wages Mantis is referring to, not the new players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Exactly. The problem has always been players like Given and Ireland (and now Bent) who are are far too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Yes BOF i understand that and probably should have stated both paying the wages for players at the club while also investing in wages for new players so my apologies to Mantis. My main point still remains though that surely we are still not reliant on more players leaving before investing in more wages and transfer fees again especially with the increase in revenue from the deal with Sky. Of the players remaining who we do want rid off is there going to be much difficulty in moving Bent and Given before the end of the window? The only major difficulty i see is in moving Ireland but should that determine our transfer activity? I'm sorry but it was a major question for me this window in how the chairman was going to invest in the club and i am disappointed to see that for the moment we do seem to be still exercising a sell to buy policy even with several players off the wage bill and more to follow. Edited June 25, 2013 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 We have signed 5 players already y'know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Yes i know that but several players have also left which again substantiates my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Yes i know that but several players have also left which again substantiates my point. Bent, Given and Ireland combined are probably on a combined 170k+. I don't think Lerner would have a problem with the wage bill if we were getting value for money but we're clearly not with those 3 still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 25, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2013 Of the players remaining who we do want rid off is there going to be much difficulty in moving Bent and Given before the end of the window? The only major difficulty i see is in moving Ireland but should that determine our transfer activity?This is all speculation on our part because we don't know whether transfers are tied to departures. We're just assuming it. But assuming we're right for the purposes of discussion, it is my view that guessing whether there will be difficulty shifting Bent and Given is not a tactic they are willing to employ. They don't want to gamble on it because they've gambled like that for long enough. It's not whether there'll be difficulty or not. It's whether they go or not. We've had too high a wage bill for long enough and it has to come down. It has been coming down consistently and it's probably almost at the level it needs to be at, with a few more departures. He's not against paying high wages but they have to be on important players like Gabby or Benteke rather than on the bench warmers. I'm sorry but it was a major question for me this window in how the chairman was going to invest in the club and i am disappointed to see that for the moment we do seem to be still exercising a sell to buy policy even with several players off the wage bill.I have trouble accepting such a definitive judgement given the level of activity we've seen and the fact that we're still nearly a full week from the start of July. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Thought I'd throw up a couple of names that would seemingly fit the "profile" (such as there is) of obscure players we could look at for the creative midfielder role. All from "lesser" European leagues and all U-21 internationals with their respective countries... Robert Žulj Domagoj Antolić Mislav Oršić Petros Mantalos Great stuff Gareth. I'd seen Zulj and Orsic before. I'll have to look in to these other two you mention, very interesting. Edited June 25, 2013 by Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 The players that have left didn't really offer us much in playing time if we look at the likes of Dunne, Marshall, Dawkins. Only Holman and Lichaj were part of first team set up last season. If Ireland leaves, he didn't even feature in the latter part, Hutton leaves same, Bent leaves his replacement is Helenius. If you think Given, Ireland, Bent and Hutton probably command around 200k, now I'm not brilliant at Maths, but between them they played how many games, I'd say 20 max including cup games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillz Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 What about Dzagoev from CSKA Moscow. Exciting talent but has fallen off the radar a bit after staring for Russia in the Euro's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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