Margaret Thatcher dies of a stroke.

[Rodders]

To add to my post earlier, I quite clearly wasn't comparing the Holocaust to Thatcher, but whether it's willful obstinacy or illiteracy, I'll make clear, people have opinions on history. That could be any event, but shit happened and people comment on it, and generally have leanings and bias' towards it. When the history is recent, that is also going to provoke comment. It seems fairly common sense. If the history is provocative it incites emotion further. I was using an example from history. Not unsurprisingly the Holocaust to mind quickly when you think of an event in history. I have also read more than on enough on the concentration camps etc to appreciate its enormity, at least in the western world's narrative. That is not Godwin's law - I think Godwin's law is being misunderstood - not necessarily intentionally but all the same, I wasn't using it to "score points" but to rebuff an argument. If I called Thatcher Hilter then fair enough that would be Godwin's law and absurd, but I didn't. I could have used any example, to make the same point. 

 

However I don't really expect that to change anyone's mind, people will read what they want. But anyway, just wanted to clarify that up, and I'm out, no-one's going to change their mind on such a divisive character. 

[CI]

Estimated cost of funeral is £10m + the £2m to get all the plebs back to Westminster yesterday.

That would pay the salary of 600 nurses for a year .

Absolute words removed

[EddieB]

 

 

Now people are comparing Thatcher's premiership to the Holocaust? Jesus **** Christ.

Which holocaust are you referring to? The Armenian one? The Rwandan one? The Cambodian one? East Timor? The Jewish holocaust? NSSM 200? Or the largest holocaust in the history of humanity and the most successful? That of the native Americans?

 

Thatcher is not responsible for all of these....

 

Great now we're going into tin-foil conspiracy territory.

I think it skipped tin-foil, flew past fahrenheit 911 and went balls out straight into bat shit crazy. Still it's nice to know Thatcher wasn't a genocidal maniac and wasn't writing policy for the US national security council before she was our PM, or is Eddy saying she was... er, nurse!

 

Its Eddie... and what conspiracy theories have I mentioned? Washington consensus? Hard fact. NSSM 200? Hard fact? Rwandan genocide? Hard fact. Etc etc. The people who funded Hitler and Thatcher? The body of evidence agrees with me.

 

 

 

With regards to US policy, I am talking about her agreeing with the core themes... which she did... not that she decided on US policy. But she was in a position where she could say something about it, and she supported it.

 

And hey you wanna talk conspiracy theories? Everyone is a conspiracy theorist. 9/11 ... you are a conspiracy theorist if you think the american government conspired to blow the towers up, but you are also a conspiracy theorist if you reckon Bin Laden orchastrated it from a kidney dialysis machine in the American Hospital in Dubai... its a theory of a conspiracy, with an astonishing lack of evidence.... Chemtrails? They clearly occur and there is limited scientific reasoning behind them other than longevity of steam at different temperatures. HAARP? Are you seriously suggesting HAARP doesn't exist?

 

Some conspiracy theories are stupid. Like the Denver International Airport one. But others have the vast body of reasonable evidence supporting them, like 9/11, like JFK, like the existence of centres of power above our government (don't be a child and call it illuminati). At which point the conspiracy theory term becomes weaponised, and at that point as a reasonable human being you need to question why the term is so weaponised.

 

Look my long and wordy point is... Thatcher was mixed up in some pretty bad stuff. She was an ideological chick, but the main thrust of her idealogy was never ever to make the world a better place. It was to make the world a better place for a few. And this wasn't done just in England. Her policies (not just hers admittedly) went across the whole globe and caused a lot of problems that are still around today, and are worse than ever. 

 

And for the record you dropped the conspiracy theory bomb. I am still unsure where you got that from...

[peterms]

 

 

Now people are comparing Thatcher's premiership to the Holocaust? Jesus **** Christ.

Which holocaust are you referring to? The Armenian one? The Rwandan one? The Cambodian one? East Timor? The Jewish holocaust? NSSM 200? Or the largest holocaust in the history of humanity and the most successful? That of the native Americans?

 

Thatcher is not responsible for all of these....

 

Great now we're going into tin-foil conspiracy territory.

I think it skipped tin-foil, flew past fahrenheit 911 and went balls out straight into bat shit crazy. Still it's nice to know Thatcher wasn't a genocidal maniac and wasn't writing policy for the US national security council before she was our PM, or is Eddy saying she was... er, nurse!

 

Could you clarify which of the points in the post (statement of fact rather than opinions) you think are factually incorrect?  There are several to choose from.

[PauloBarnesi]

Estimated cost of funeral is £10m + the £2m to get all the plebs back to Westminster yesterday.

That would pay the salary of 600 nurses for a year .

Absolute words removed

 

or give how many bottles of fat free organic milk to kids? 

or bobbies on the beat?

or keeping a pit open?

or how much of the Woodhead line?

or how many flying hours of Vulcan’s?

or how many games from Samuel Eto?

or how much EPO Lance could neck back?

or how many copies of the Daily Mail?

or how many grammar schools?

or how many players could Lambert sign?

or how many pints of strong lager?

[tinker]

No politician should be treated as special, its divisive. Politics is all about opinion, some love left, some right. You may think she did a brilliant job attacking socialism, and hurting it. Or you may believe she didn't. 

 

Shes still winning, red or blue at number 10, what she started is not over yet, that's for sure.

[CI]

We could probably keep Stephen Ireland on for another 3 years with the money

[thetrees]

Certainly in terms of the funeral cost I am yet to come across anyone, apart from one poster on here, who is comfortable with us forking out for it at a time when we are having it rammed down our throats that we haven't got a pot to piss in. The money it is costing us could have funded around an extra 400 nurses for a year.

 

 

Estimated cost of funeral is £10m + the £2m to get all the plebs back to Westminster yesterday.

That would pay the salary of 600 nurses for a year .

 

I wonder if we'll be up to 1000 nurses by the end of this thread.

 

It's a great analogy. I have worked out that we could pay 200000 nurses for the year of the Millenium Dome

[CI]

Take the piss all you like, it's £12m quid for burying a multi millionaire tyrant bully scumbag who deserves to rot in hell. This funeral is being rammed down our throats and I for one hope it kicks off next weds

[peterms]

Certainly in terms of the funeral cost I am yet to come across anyone, apart from one poster on here, who is comfortable with us forking out for it at a time when we are having it rammed down our throats that we haven't got a pot to piss in. The money it is costing us could have funded around an extra 400 nurses for a year.

 

 

Estimated cost of funeral is £10m + the £2m to get all the plebs back to Westminster yesterday.

That would pay the salary of 600 nurses for a year .

 

I wonder if we'll be up to 1000 nurses by the end of this thread.

 

It's a great analogy. I have worked out that we could pay 200000 nurses for the year of the Millenium Dome

 

 

You know, those two things could have worked perfectly in partnership.  The Millennium Dome as a mausoleum for Thatcher.  Crowds queuing patiently to use Boris' cable-car, or zipwire, or whatever form of transport is authorised to get there.  Genuflecting to Canary Wharf and News International while in the general vicinity.

 

Now that would be a real monument to the dangers of letting total fuckwits loose on an economy.

[thetrees]

Take the piss all you like, it's £12m quid for burying a multi millionaire tyrant bully scumbag who deserves to rot in hell. This funeral is being rammed down our throats and I for one hope it kicks off next weds

I think that my point was that everything costs. Like her or loathe her, she was the most influential peacetime politician of this country and on the greater world stage. There was always going to be a cost attached to her passing.

Have you considered that the high estimations of cost are largely because of the security required to control those that you would like to 'kick off'?

It seems strange that if someone disagrees with the funding for a funeral the solution should be that people hide their face and go out with the intention of making a policeman's head bleed.

It takes all sorts I suppose.

[markavfc40]

Estimated cost of funeral is £10m + the £2m to get all the plebs back to Westminster yesterday.

That would pay the salary of 600 nurses for a year .

Absolute words removed

 

or give how many bottles of fat free organic milk to kids? 

or bobbies on the beat?

or keeping a pit open?

or how much of the Woodhead line?

or how many flying hours of Vulcan’s?

or how many games from Samuel Eto?

or how much EPO Lance could neck back?

or how many copies of the Daily Mail?

or how many grammar schools?

or how many players could Lambert sign?

or how many pints of strong lager?

 

There are a number of things on that list that it is ridiculous to suggest us the tax payers could be funding. Much like funding the funeral of a multi millionaire whose immediate family also happen to be multi millionaires. The fact it is at a time when we supposedly haven't got a pot to piss in and are taking money and essential services away from the poorest and most vulnerable in society is, as I said earlier, something no one should be comfortable with.

Edited April 11, 2013 by markavfc40

[thetrees]

Certainly in terms of the funeral cost I am yet to come across anyone, apart from one poster on here, who is comfortable with us forking out for it at a time when we are having it rammed down our throats that we haven't got a pot to piss in. The money it is costing us could have funded around an extra 400 nurses for a year.

 

 

>

Estimated cost of funeral is £10m + the £2m to get all the plebs back to Westminster yesterday.

That would pay the salary of 600 nurses for a year .

 

>

I wonder if we'll be up to 1000 nurses by the end of this thread.

 

It's a great analogy. I have worked out that we could pay 200000 nurses for the year of the Millenium Dome

 

 

You know, those two things could have worked perfectly in partnership.  The Millennium Dome as a mausoleum for Thatcher.  Crowds queuing patiently to use Boris' cable-car, or zipwire, or whatever form of transport is authorised to get there.  Genuflecting to Canary Wharf and News International while in the general vicinity.

 

Now that would be a real monument to the dangers of letting total fuckwits loose on an economy.

Good one. From the cable car they could look over at Olympic Park, the cost of which would have paid for 6.6m nurses for the period that it was in use.

[PauloBarnesi]

Take the piss all you like, it's £12m quid for burying a multi millionaire tyrant bully scumbag who deserves to rot in hell. This funeral is being rammed down our throats and I for one hope it kicks off next weds

 

And how much will the kicking cost? How many lives possibly saved through those extra bobbies and nurses?

 

Two wrongs don’t make a right...

[PauloBarnesi]

 

Estimated cost of funeral is £10m + the £2m to get all the plebs back to Westminster yesterday.

That would pay the salary of 600 nurses for a year .

Absolute words removed

 

or give how many bottles of fat free organic milk to kids? 

or bobbies on the beat?

or keeping a pit open?

or how much of the Woodhead line?

or how many flying hours of Vulcan’s?

or how many games from Samuel Eto?

or how much EPO Lance could neck back?

or how many copies of the Daily Mail?

or how many grammar schools?

or how many players could Lambert sign?

or how many pints of strong lager?

 

There are a number of things on that list that it is ridiculous to suggest us the tax payers could be funding. Much like funding the funeral of a multi millionaire whose immediate family also happen to be multi millionaires. The fact it is at a time when we supposedly haven't got a pot to piss in and are taking money and essential services away from the poorest and most vulnerable in society is, as I said earlier, something no one should be comfortable with.

Just like those who took away the opportunity that grammar schools offered people. And the evil witch didn’t undo the wrong either. 

[peterms]

Take the piss all you like, it's £12m quid for burying a multi millionaire tyrant bully scumbag who deserves to rot in hell. This funeral is being rammed down our throats and I for one hope it kicks off next weds

I think that my point was that everything costs. Like her or loathe her, she was the most influential peacetime politician of this country and on the greater world stage. There was always going to be a cost attached to her passing.

Have you considered that the high estimations of cost are largely because of the security required to control those that you would like to 'kick off'?

It seems strange that if someone disagrees with the funding for a funeral the solution should be that people hide their face and go out with the intention of making a policeman's head bleed.

It takes all sorts I suppose.

 

Step back a little.

 

What's happening is that although it has long been agreed by all concerned that there would be no state funeral, in fact a state funeral is happening, because Cameron et al have pulled a flanker and Miliband doesn't feel comfortable in derailing it, presumably for reasons of taste and decency (which Cameron seems oblivious to, but never mind).  I gather Oborne has written about this in the Torygraph, but I can't see it as they now have a paywall, presumably to recoup the costs of the Barclay twins putting Thatcher up in the Ritz for god knows how long, since her family didn't fancy seeing to her needs.

 

This is in effect not just flouting all previous protocol and agreed actions decided upon after lengthy discussion of this precise eventuality, it is more importantly a considered waving of two fingers in the faces of those millions of people who actively hate what the tories did in the 80's and for which she was the more-than-willing public face.  A reaction is inevitable, as we all know.  But you would blame those taunted for daring to respond, and attribute the (loaded, as in all cases where police get to claim overtime) costs to the victims of this provocation?  I'm reminded of Orange Lodges marching past Catholic areas singing triumphalist songs and expressing faux outrage that they were jeered and stoned.  The action was done to provoke the reaction, or else to glory in any lack of reaction.  So in this case.

 

I don't agree with anyone making policemens' heads bleed.  It will help to avoid that if the more balanced, sane and sensible police officers are used on the day, not the pumped-up thugs we have seen too many times.  But it would have been far, far better to have avoided this altogether, by sticking to the agreed plan, and not imposing a state funeral by subterfuge on an unwilling population.  The plain aim is to stir up trouble and foster support for yet more repressive measures.  It's a shabby and transparent trick, in which respect it's entirely consistent with Cameron's shallow and limited world view.  Loathsome though she was, Thatcher would probably have been above this pathetic manoeuvre.

[LondonLax]

The Wizard of Oz track "Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead" had gone into the top ten of this weeks singles charts. 

 

The BBC is considering whether they will play it on their top 40 countdown on Sunday

 

EDIT: Into the top 5 now

Edited April 11, 2013 by LondonLax

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Tories must be gutted she didn't have the decency to snuff it in the run up to the next election.

[StefanAVFC]

Tories must be gutted she didn't have the decency to snuff it in the run up to the next election.

 

Doubt it would have helped. They're down 14 points in the polls so I doubt this OTT Thatcher love in has helped them. In fact it's done the opposite.

 

My 2 cents, people shouldn't be celebrating her death, but the love in in the media is sickening. The funeral costs as much as it does because of all the security and the MP's having to come back early is an absolute joke, even the speaker was against it.

[Awol]

 

 

 

Now people are comparing Thatcher's premiership to the Holocaust? Jesus **** Christ.

Which holocaust are you referring to? The Armenian one? The Rwandan one? The Cambodian one? East Timor? The Jewish holocaust? NSSM 200? Or the largest holocaust in the history of humanity and the most successful? That of the native Americans?

 

Thatcher is not responsible for all of these....

 

Great now we're going into tin-foil conspiracy territory.

I think it skipped tin-foil, flew past fahrenheit 911 and went balls out straight into bat shit crazy. Still it's nice to know Thatcher wasn't a genocidal maniac and wasn't writing policy for the US national security council before she was our PM, or is Eddy saying she was... er, nurse!

 

Could you clarify which of the points in the post (statement of fact rather than opinions) you think are factually incorrect?  There are several to choose from.

Peter, the comment that "Thatcher is not responsible for all of these" after listing a series of mass murders seperated by decades if not centuries, would imply she was responsible for some of them. I'm always happy to debate people with a different perspective, but when the starting point is so obviously mental why even engage at all? Note, I was replying to Mantis above, not Eddie.