Rovers13 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 England's trouble is most teams go up against them expecting to be playing a team as strong as the Premier League is, and England aren't that strong. So teams end up overestimating them and getting better results against them as a consequence. The success of the Premier League has doomed England on two counts. Teams think you're that good at the same time as the foreign players in the Premier League are ensuring that you won't be. Double-edged sword or wha? I really don't think that's true. Teams in the World Cup aren't that naive, and they also go all out against anyone. Teams aren't trying extra hard against England, they'd try just as hard against an Algeria as they would against an England. In reality, England's problem is that they are probably between 10-15 in the best footballing counties, and they finished right in that range, losing to a better German side. The issue is the quality, not the mentality of the sides they play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Scotland do produce players like they used to. The rest of the world has simply got better since the 1970s whilst the level of Scottish football has plateaued. No they don't. Dalglish, Baxter, Jimmy Johnstone, hansen, Strachan, Gemmill, Andy Gray, Dennis Law, Alex Cropley. Just to name a few from, the 60s/70s The current crop aren't in the same league including Bannan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 England's trouble is most teams go up against them expecting to be playing a team as strong as the Premier League is, and England aren't that strong. So teams end up overestimating them and getting better results against them as a consequence. The success of the Premier League has doomed England on two counts. Teams think you're that good at the same time as the foreign players in the Premier League are ensuring that you won't be. Double-edged sword or wha? I really don't think that's true. Teams in the World Cup aren't that naive, and they also go all out against anyone. Teams aren't trying extra hard against England, they'd try just as hard against an Algeria as they would against an England. In reality, England's problem is that they are probably between 10-15 in the best footballing counties, and they finished right in that range, losing to a better German side. The issue is the quality, not the mentality of the sides they play. Obviously quality is an issue but I don't think you can dismiss his point entirely. It's natural for smaller/weaker sides to raise their game against bigger/better teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Irish Ukrainian Supporters Club checking in. Come on you boys in blue & yellow, stuff those those cheese eating, foul smelling, war losing, beret wearing cheating words removed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Scotland do produce players like they used to. The rest of the world has simply got better since the 1970s whilst the level of Scottish football has plateaued. No they don't. Dalglish, Baxter, Jimmy Johnstone, hansen, Strachan, Gemmill, Andy Gray, Dennis Law, Alex Cropley. Just to name a few from, the 60s/70s The current crop aren't in the same league including Bannan. Fair enough, four of those I recognise as great players: Dalgleish, Hansen, Strachan, Law. You could also add Bremner and Souness. However, your list does actually trawl the years mid-1950s - 1980s, which is three decades. Gordon Strachan didn't stop playing until 1997. For comparison, I'll list some prominent Scottish footballers from the 1990s and 2000s, less time about two decades. Alex McLeish (Aberdeen, captain), Jim Leighton (Man Utd), Ally McCoist (Rangers), Gary McAllister (Leeds), Brian McClair (Man Utd), Pat Nevin (Everton), Steve Archibald (Barcelona), Gordon Durie (Chelsea, Tottenham). Yes, these are excellent players but from that list only Pat Nevin could be listed in the same category as your list. Steve Archibald too, possibly. So I would partially agree the plateau is a slight dip, but it is not as excessive as it's often made out to be. The rest of the world has got better and so the good Scottish players just don't start out so much any more. I expect Bannan to enter the category of great Scottish footballers but I agree he has a lot to do to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Irish Ukrainian Supporters Club checking in. Come on you boys in blue & yellow, stuff those those cheese eating, foul smelling, war losing, beret wearing cheating words removed just reading its 4 years to the day since Henry handballed it. Wouldnt be surprised if something similar happens tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2013 Irish Ukrainian Supporters Club checking in. Come on you boys in blue & yellow, stuff those those cheese eating, foul smelling, war losing, beret wearing cheating words removed just reading its 4 years to the day since Henry handballed it. Wouldnt be surprised if something similar happens tonight Just a consolation though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 id be actually happier if France went 2 up and then last minute Yarmolenko punched it into the net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Scotland do produce players like they used to. The rest of the world has simply got better since the 1970s whilst the level of Scottish football has plateaued. No they don't. Dalglish, Baxter, Jimmy Johnstone, hansen, Strachan, Gemmill, Andy Gray, Dennis Law, Alex Cropley. Just to name a few from, the 60s/70s The current crop aren't in the same league including Bannan. Fair enough, four of those I recognise as great players: Dalgleish, Hansen, Strachan, Law. You could also add Bremner and Souness. However, your list does actually trawl the years mid-1950s - 1980s, which is three decades. Gordon Strachan didn't stop playing until 1997. For comparison, I'll list some prominent Scottish footballers from the 1990s and 2000s, less time about two decades. Alex McLeish (Aberdeen, captain), Jim Leighton (Man Utd), Ally McCoist (Rangers), Gary McAllister (Leeds), Brian McClair (Man Utd), Pat Nevin (Everton), Steve Archibald (Barcelona), Gordon Durie (Chelsea, Tottenham). Yes, these are excellent players but from that list only Pat Nevin could be listed in the same category as your list. Steve Archibald too, possibly. So I would partially agree the plateau is a slight dip, but it is not as excessive as it's often made out to be. The rest of the world has got better and so the good Scottish players just don't start out so much any more. I expect Bannan to enter the category of great Scottish footballers but I agree he has a lot to do to get there. I was really talking 60s/70s when those players were at their peak, because i think that was the golden era of Scottish football. Celtic won the european cup in 67 with all scottish 11. In 1970 Celtic totally outplayed our best Leeds.over two legs. i think it was 1970. Sorry Bannan will never be a great. Cropley is not even considered a great and I think of Bannan as a poor mans cropley. He reminds me off him a little but Cropley was different class. Edited November 19, 2013 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2013 id be actually happier if France went 2 up and then last minute Yarmolenko punched it into the net That would be too close for comfort for me. I don't want to tantalise them with the chance of going through only to snatch it away at the last second, just in case it didn't happen. No, I want them down and beaten in the first minute with no chance of going to Brazil. I want it 5-0 after 10 minutes and a nice comfortable elimination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Ukraine will score tonight imo with the pace they have on the break, I really don't see France scoring 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) For those who won't bother watching England get dicked at Wembley then the telegraph are streaming France v Ukraine here and Sweden v Portugal is on skysports 1 from 7.30. Egypt v Ghana is on btsport 2 now, Egypt leading 1-0 but losing 6-2 n aggregate, and Algeria v Burkina Faso is also on btsport 2 from 6.15pm Edited November 19, 2013 by Jimzk5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Iceland and Ukraine to go through please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I will be watching the France Ukraine game instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 For those who won't bother watching England get dicked at Wembley then the telegraph are streaming France v Ukraine here and Sweden v Portugal is on skysports 1 from 7.30. Egypt v Ghana is on btsport 2 now, Egypt leading 1-0 but losing 6-2 n aggregate, and Algeria v Burkina Faso is also on btsport 2 from 6.15pm Cheers. I didn't know youtube could stream live games. Shall keep an eye open for a Sweden equaliser otherwise it's Ukraine all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 COME ON SWEDEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Ghana have officially qualified, although we knew they were through anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Would've liked to have seen Egypt make a world cup for once seeing how often they dominate the AFNC, I assume Bob Bradley has got out of there alive? Really happy for Ghana though, they certainly deserve to be there after what they gave last time. Still got a nucleus of a good team with Muntari, Essien, Prince-Boateng and few others. Can't help feeling they'll draw Uruguay in the group stages...... For those who won't bother watching England get dicked at Wembley then the telegraph are streaming France v Ukraine here and Sweden v Portugal is on skysports 1 from 7.30. Egypt v Ghana is on btsport 2 now, Egypt leading 1-0 but losing 6-2 n aggregate, and Algeria v Burkina Faso is also on btsport 2 from 6.15pm Cheers. I didn't know youtube could stream live games. Shall keep an eye open for a Sweden equaliser otherwise it's Ukraine all the way. BET365 also stream the games if you have an account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingsombrero Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 According to the commentator if Croatia get another then Iceland will have, "a real uphill mountain to climb". Fancy that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 mandzukic scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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