DelboyVilla Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 The point is, unlike every single one of your posts that say we CAN't spend any money because of FFP rules; we can.... Only if someone (the bank or RAL) will lend the club the money and only if the RL puts in equity to cover losses. It's pretty clear that the aim is to stop making dobbin gert losses. So that "can" is a bit of conditional thing. Absolutely. But that's not what was being discussed with respect. Sutton was making the point that a hypothetical new owner couldn't come in and spend very much, even if they wanted to. My post was there to say that if they've got the money to spend/waste, they can up to a certain level without falling foul of FFP. We could in fact loose £105m in one year so long as we lost nothing or made money for the next 2 years? I guess. I think it's slightly unrealsitic though, as you'd either have to massively increase your turnover, or sack everybody who worked for you and leave the country! yep about right! but you can do it. How I don't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 We could in fact loose £105m in one year so long as we lost nothing or made money for the next 2 years? Not any more we can't. To lose £105m in any given year now, you'd have to have made money or broken even the 2 years previous, and make money or break even the 2 years following. Given our recent books, that ship has long sailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 We could in fact loose £105m in one year so long as we lost nothing or made money for the next 2 years? Not any more we can't. To lose £105m in any given year now, you'd have to have made money or broken even the 2 years previous, and make money or break even the 2 years following. Given our recent books, that ship has long sailed. you're right never thought of it that way! Well at least we have built up a top squad with those losses?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) How do you make a loss of £105m over three years (assuming you've spanked a chunk of that on transfers) without adding to the wage bill by less than the amount allowed in the rules!? I think that's the tricky part. Edited April 14, 2014 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 How do you make a loss of £105m over three years (assuming you've spanked a chunk of that on transfers) without adding to the wage bill by less than the amount allowed in the rules!? I think that's the tricky part. We've been somewhat inexplicably thundering along at £50m loss a year while paying low wages (apparently) so I would safely assume those kind of maths are well beyond the club's accountants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 How do you make a loss of £105m over three years (assuming you've spanked a chunk of that on transfers) without adding to the wage bill by less than the amount allowed in the rules!? I think that's the tricky part. Get rid of your surplus players I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If you have enough money there are ways around FFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If you have enough money there are ways around FFP We don't actually know that for a fact yet since nobody has gotten around it to date, everyone who tried had their accounts placed under investigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If you have enough money there are ways around FFP We don't actually know that for a fact yet since nobody has gotten around it to date, everyone who tried had their accounts placed under investigation I read, on here, that PSG have backdated sponsorship. I haven't looked in to how true this is but if there's any truth in it FFP is a joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If you have enough money there are ways around FFP This has been said before. "If" you have enough money i.e. you're an 'old' money club or PSG/City then, yes, various creative sponsorships/partnership deals, third party agreements, management arrangements and whatever MIGHT get you around the rules. But... 1) We need the next Mansour to take us over 2) Whether there are ways around it or not is still to be decided by the panel performing the reviews. Interestingly, some of the big PL clubs wanted the PL to adopt the more stringent UEFA rules. Those clubs didn't include City and Chelsea, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 As it happens, the panel meets this week to decide the cases referred to them by UEFA. All 70 odd cases or something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 man city also have this whole development outside going on, which is all sponsored by eitihad, no precedent for it, cant be compared to arsenal's emirates deal etc because its far bigger, their owners can pump just about as much money in to that as the like, will be interesting to see how muddy they cant make the waters with the new york and oz clubs too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If you have enough money there are ways around FFP This has been said before. "If" you have enough money i.e. you're an 'old' money club or PSG/City then, yes, various creative sponsorships/partnership deals, third party agreements, management arrangements and whatever MIGHT get you around the rules. But... 1) We need the next Mansour to take us over 2) Whether there are ways around it or not is still to be decided by the panel performing the reviews. Interestingly, some of the big PL clubs wanted the PL to adopt the more stringent UEFA rules. Those clubs didn't include City and Chelsea, of course. plus us, baggies and fulhan wasnt it? still amazes me that so many voted for it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If you have enough money there are ways around FFP We don't actually know that for a fact yet since nobody has gotten around it to date, everyone who tried had their accounts placed under investigation I read, on here, that PSG have backdated sponsorship. I haven't looked in to how true this is but if there's any truth in it FFP is a joke. They can attempt to do whatever they want, but we can't for sure say it's a joke because none of the accounts under investigation have had final decisions made yet. Nobody, I repeat nobody, has "gotten round" FFP yet They might do, and THEN it'll be a joke, but right now nobody has managed anything, so there's no way of knowing their owners can pump just about as much money in to that as the like Again, just for clarity, we don't know that they can yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 As it happens, the panel meets this week to decide the cases referred to them by UEFA. All 70 odd cases or something! Apparently they've whittled that down to 20 cases now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Completely agree pete it could be a joke but it isn't yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 They will though and we pretty all know it, Big money lawyers must have been involved at some point and are probably chomping the bit ready to fight this in court which will mean probably a two year wait before action can be taken if they loose the case, doubtful though as they normally know what they are doing unlike the football authorities who will have no doubt made an error in their drafting of the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Completely agree pete it could be a joke but it isn't yet. This is UEFA though as well run as FIFA all in all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 As it happens, the panel meets this week to decide the cases referred to them by UEFA. All 70 odd cases or something! Apparently they've whittled that down to 20 cases now. Oh I see. That could be due to the way UEFA have structured the decision making process. They set the rules and refer cases of clubs who might have broken the rules to the panel. It's up to the panel then to review the cases, investigate them, and then make a judgement. UEFA have tried to protect themselves legally by removing themselves from the decision making process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briggsy Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If you have enough money there are ways around FFP We don't actually know that for a fact yet since nobody has gotten around it to date, everyone who tried had their accounts placed under investigation I read, on here, that PSG have backdated sponsorship. I haven't looked in to how true this is but if there's any truth in it FFP is a joke. They can attempt to do whatever they want, but we can't for sure say it's a joke because none of the accounts under investigation have had final decisions made yet. Nobody, I repeat nobody, has "gotten round" FFP yet They might do, and THEN it'll be a joke, but right now nobody has managed anything, so there's no way of knowingtheir owners can pump just about as much money in to that as the like Again, just for clarity, we don't know that they can yet Also we don't know what the punishments will be yet Even club's are found guilty we don't know if they will be excluded or whether they will just hand out warnings and fines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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