PIW Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I don't think anyone is asking for a top 4 squad at the moment. What we're asking for is to look at the mistakes previously made and make sure they don't happen again off the pitch. Who rubber stamped the deals? What is the business plan now? People look at Leeds and don't blame O'Leary but Risdale for chasing the dream to the point they broke. We're not there but surely there needs to be a business model put in place to make sure our 'plan' is to simply sell our best players, or cut those on ridiculous wages until their contracts expire and then go out and just find cheaper players that will come in and do the job better. As I said, back to mediocrity. that all works if you find a manager experienced at finding a manager who is expereinced in finding gems putting them together into a team and going forward. is that mcleish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellleond Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 McLeish did a great job with a small budget at Birmingham, IMHO. Whether that makes him good for the Villa job is obviously a huge talking point. The fact is, we've flirted with relegation in recent years, so we need to put that well and truly behind us before we can truly kick on. McLeish does seem to have a track record of relegation, so he's got a LOT to prove, shoestring budget or otherwise... The Board haven't helped him with player departures since he arrived, mind you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 that all works if you find a manager experienced at finding a manager who is expereinced in finding gems putting them together into a team and going forward. is that mcleish? So McLeish is just here to find another manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellleond Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 that all works if you find a manager experienced at finding a manager who is expereinced in finding gems putting them together into a team and going forward. is that mcleish? So McLeish is just here to find another manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I don't think anyone is asking for a top 4 squad at the moment. What we're asking for is to look at the mistakes previously made and make sure they don't happen again off the pitch. Who rubber stamped the deals? What is the business plan now? People look at Leeds and don't blame O'Leary but Risdale for chasing the dream to the point they broke. We're not there but surely there needs to be a business model put in place to make sure our 'plan' is to simply sell our best players, or cut those on ridiculous wages until their contracts expire and then go out and just find cheaper players that will come in and do the job better. As I said, back to mediocrity. that all works if you find a manager experienced at finding a manager who is expereinced in finding gems putting them together into a team and going forward. is that mcleish? Spot on PIW. I'm getting fed up with those people moaning about us moaning without reading any of the posts in relation to the supposed moaning. If that makes any sense. No-one (or very few anyway) wants us to spend millions on transfers. They just want the club professionally managed and a framework provided whereby the club can achieve to its maximum potential - commercially and on the playing field. RL has not delivered this and, on the evidence of the last 5 or 6 years, is incapable of doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Thing for me I fail to understand with the argument that goes "Randy let MON spend what he wanted on who he wanted, it was MON who spent all the money at whatever amount he wanted to" is that MON is not a stupid bloke, he wants success and I would presume he would have wanted it quickly and as easy as possible. Why then did he not just go and do a man citeh? To use an example from above Mon - I'd like to sign Lionel Messi he will cost x amount, he's currently on 150k so to come here he wants a pay rise. Randy - Ok, will he be first team, is this the man you want? Mon - Yes and Yes Randy - Ok then we'll get him Surely that is how the conversation would have gone if MON had total control over what he spent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Thing for me I fail to understand with the argument that goes "Randy let MON spend what he wanted on who he wanted, it was MON who spent all the money at whatever amount he wanted to" is that MON is not a stupid bloke, he wants success and I would presume he would have wanted it quickly and as easy as possible. Why then did he not just go and do a man citeh? To use an example from above Mon - I'd like to sign Lionel Messi he will cost x amount, he's currently on 150k so to come here he wants a pay rise. Randy - Ok, will he be first team, is this the man you want? Mon - Yes and Yes Randy - Ok then we'll get him Surely that is how the conversation would have gone if MON had total control over what he spent? Except that Randy Lerner isn't exactly Sheikh Mansour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellleond Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Thing for me I fail to understand with the argument that goes "Randy let MON spend what he wanted on who he wanted, it was MON who spent all the money at whatever amount he wanted to" is that MON is not a stupid bloke, he wants success and I would presume he would have wanted it quickly and as easy as possible. Why then did he not just go and do a man citeh? To use an example from above Mon - I'd like to sign Lionel Messi he will cost x amount, he's currently on 150k so to come here he wants a pay rise. Randy - Ok, will he be first team, is this the man you want? Mon - Yes and Yes Randy - Ok then we'll get him Surely that is how the conversation would have gone if MON had total control over what he spent? Total control would negate the need for MON and Randy to discuss it at all... MON - I'd like to sign Messi Randy - OK Then. MON - aren't you going to ask what his wages are, etc? Randy - No, you're in total control... :!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Thing for me I fail to understand with the argument that goes "Randy let MON spend what he wanted on who he wanted, it was MON who spent all the money at whatever amount he wanted to" is that MON is not a stupid bloke, he wants success and I would presume he would have wanted it quickly and as easy as possible. Why then did he not just go and do a man citeh? To use an example from above Mon - I'd like to sign Lionel Messi he will cost x amount, he's currently on 150k so to come here he wants a pay rise. Randy - Ok, will he be first team, is this the man you want? Mon - Yes and Yes Randy - Ok then we'll get him Surely that is how the conversation would have gone if MON had total control over what he spent? I am sure MON was set a budget each summer of what he could spend, and that budget would not have afforded Messi! I am not so sure that they particular focused on the wage bill though as opposed to transfer fees. But within that budget, MON seemed to have pretty much carte blanche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIW Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 that all works if you find a manager experienced at finding a manager who is expereinced in finding gems putting them together into a team and going forward. is that mcleish? So McLeish is just here to find another manager? oops...I doubt he'd make a big a mess of it as randy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think MON had budgets, and Randy put a limit on overall wages based on over ambitious growth projections. I think some players were given ridiculously high contracts, exactly who is to blame for that I've no idea. I don't know how these negotiations work, but as an experienced manager you'd imagine MON would act as an advisor to the club in that process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Thing for me I fail to understand with the argument that goes "Randy let MON spend what he wanted on who he wanted, it was MON who spent all the money at whatever amount he wanted to" is that MON is not a stupid bloke, he wants success and I would presume he would have wanted it quickly and as easy as possible. Why then did he not just go and do a man citeh? To use an example from above Mon - I'd like to sign Lionel Messi he will cost x amount, he's currently on 150k so to come here he wants a pay rise. Randy - Ok, will he be first team, is this the man you want? Mon - Yes and Yes Randy - Ok then we'll get him Surely that is how the conversation would have gone if MON had total control over what he spent? You used my example but at no point did I say MON did not have a set budget nor did I say he had total control. And you well know that using Messi as an example is both ridiculous and totally missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 You used my example but at no point did I say MON did not have a set budget nor did I say he had total control. You'll note that at no time did I say you did, I merely used your example of MON v Randy player discussion And you well know that using Messi as an example is both ridiculous and totally missing the point. Actually no it does not miss the point. Sure it may be an exaggerated example but it was one used to challenge the point that MON had total control over who he signed, for how much and how much we paid them, which seems to be a common argument that people use when wishing to criticise the former manager and absolve the current owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The subject has been discussed in many places, the general consensus is we need to trim the wage bill. The challenge is doing that without weakening the team too much. At the moment we're good for a 7-8th finish and the wage bill is being dealt with. We wont get relegated, we wont go bust. You spout sensationalist bullshit. Please highlight in this thread where I have said we will either get relegated or go bust, and if you can't, perhaps you'll be man enough to apologise.You want rid of Lerner, you think he's shit, I assumed the way your posts have gone, you thought we were relegation fodder. Your telling my your chucking a hysterical fit because what? You think we're mid table quality? Get a grip. The only person chucking a hysterical fit is you with your "BULLSHIT" nonsense. You're commenting on accounts you haven't seen and are putting words in people's mouths by claiming that they've mentioned relegation when they haven't. Oh, and it's "you're telling me" by the way, not "your telling my". You should calm down a bit and think before you type, as you seem dreadfully wound up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think MON had budgets, and Randy put a limit on overall wages based on over ambitious growth projections. I think some players were given ridiculously high contracts, exactly who is to blame for that I've no idea. I don't know how these negotiations work, but as an experienced manager you'd imagine MON would act as an advisor to the club in that process? If there was any sort of budget setting going on, how come the club are now saying that the wages are far too high? It's extremely easy to work out how much your wage bill is going to be for the coming year, and it shows what a shambles the club is that the massive losses in the accounts apparently came as such a shock. The bulk of the costs only relate to the salaries of about twenty people, they've hardly dealing with an organisation the size of Walmart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Ignoring the sideshow and sticking to the main point of the thread. My theory is that the budget was calculated on a growth projection which didn't materialise so we have to cut the wage bill. I liked the ambition shown, I'm disappointed CL football and the benefits didn't quite happen, but we had a go and I wont be bitter. We're in a new phase, a more frugal plan has emerged, I don't think we're the only club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 That was quite an optimistic growth projection! Bearing in mind that the total loss for the last two years was £83m, did they think that we were suddenly going to play in the Champions League Final, expand the stadium to 100,000 and sell a million replica shirts in Asia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 That was quite an optimistic growth projection! Bearing in mind that the total loss for the last two years was £83m, did they think that we were suddenly going to play in the Champions League Final, expand the stadium to 100,000 and sell a million replica shirts in Asia?I think the increased revenue of CL football would have seen us still making a loss, but a much smaller one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 If we'd have go to the final maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 that all works if you find a manager experienced at finding a manager who is expereinced in finding gems putting them together into a team and going forward. is that mcleish? Dann Johnson Hart on loan Fahey also revitalised Carr, Bowyer and Phillips who he got on frees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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