markavfc40 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I hear what you're saying but I'm not convinced we are/were that attractive a prospect for managers. I can't agree with this and much of the rest of your post, sorry. I'd struggle to name more than a couple of managers that are worse than McLeish currently managing in the Premier League. Are you seriously suggesting that Aston Villa should have one of the worst managers of all the clubs in the Premier League? that we couldn't go all out to attract better than that? **** me even under Doug we managed to attract some very good managers. Big Ron, Brian Little, Graham Taylor all left clubs to come to us. Graham Taylor in fact left Watford then in the top flight to come to a just relegated Aston Villa. He was young and saw us as what we were a club with huge potential and a challenge. You telling me that a Paul Lambert or a Brendan Rogers wouldn't see us a huge step up or couldn't be convinced to come. Its about how you sell the club and Lerner/ Faulkner must be poor salesmen if the best that they can do is to bring in McLeish. Aston Villa is still considered by many in the game as one of the top half dozen or so clubs in the country. It should take very little selling to prospective managers. To have then ended up with McLeish shows incompetence of the highest order from Lerner and Faulkner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I still can't get over how quickly we have fallen over the last 18 months. We may be sitting 10th but we are a million miles away from where we were. In any case by the half way point of the season I'd say we'll be sitting in around 14th which is a more realistic position. Whilst its not nice I can just about accept that Lerner has had to cut costs. That though does not excuse his managerial appointments. Whilst not ideal when O'Neill left, most likely it seems sacked, 5 days before the season, Aston Villa was still an attractive proposition for many a manager. Even after a poor season last year we were still an attractive proposition. Now everyone is entitled to make a **** up. Lerner though learned nothing from the mistakes he made with Houllier and appointed another duff in McLeish. Its incomprehensible when you think about it how we have ended up with McLeish. I honestly couldn't care a jot that he has managed Sha. What bothers me is the fact he has taken a club down twice serving up negative tripe whilst doing so. What qualities had Lerner seen in either of his appointments. Houllier you could maybe excuse but he had question marks over him in the fact he hadn't managed for 3 years, hadn't managed in The Premiership in several years, had a questionable record in the transfer market and not known for working on a tight budget, had health issues and wasn't prepared to take on the job immediately choosing to take two weeks to clear his desk at the French FA. What qualities he saw in McLeish is anyone's guess. He seems a nice enough bloke but his record in management in England is poor to OK at best. Its astonishing really that this is the best Aston Villa could do. Well that's not true is it. Its the best Lerner and Faulkner could do. He will inevitably be looking for another manager with in the next 6 -12 months. I don't think we will go down but crowds are dropping off drastically and those of us that do attend will increasingly start to get on the managers back and the inevitable will happen and he will be forced out. Maybe he will be third time lucky. I very much doubt it though. The most important appointment a Chairman/Chief Exec have to make is to appoint the right manager. It is something Lerner and Faulkner seem incapable of doing. That leads me to the conclusion that either Lerner gets rid of Faulkner and brings in a Chief Executive capable of doing this or he sells up. One of the two needs to happen or we are going to continue heading up shit creek without a paddle. Absolute spot on that man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 What qualities he saw in McLeish is anyone's guess. He seems a nice enough bloke but his record in management in England is poor to OK at best. Its astonishing really that this is the best Aston Villa could do. Well that's not true is it. Its the best Lerner and Faulkner could do. He will inevitably be looking for another manager with in the next 6 -12 months. I don't think we will go down but crowds are dropping off drastically and those of us that do attend will increasingly start to get on the managers back and the inevitable will happen and he will be forced out. Maybe he will be third time lucky. I very much doubt it though. The most important appointment a Chairman/Chief Exec have to make is to appoint the right manager. It is something Lerner and Faulkner seem incapable of doing. That leads me to the conclusion that either Lerner gets rid of Faulkner and brings in a Chief Executive capable of doing this or he sells up. One of the two needs to happen or we are going to continue heading up shit creek without a paddle. Don't usually agree with you but I agree with you on the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Mark, The issue is not our history or pedigree but the manner in which a potential manager would be asked to work. The evidence would appeaer to suggest that in the summer there wasn't a lot to choose from and that in the eyes of the board AMc represented the best of those that were prepared to come. I dont think he was ever right for the job, and what we're seeing now is the patience of those who were prepared to give him a chance running out, but I cannot see a shread of evidence that suggests we turned down one of these better managers in order to appoint McLeish. What I know is we were about to have an interview with McLaren, and we chatted to Martinez before he decided he's stay at Wigan (yes Wigan!) That suggests to me that there wasn't a wide and varied list of talent that put themselves in the frame for the job. I personally think Lambert and Roger would see it as a hiding to nothing, we'd get a load of fans saying they weren't good enough, thay'd have their hands tied in terms of recruitment of playing staff and would be the instant scape goat the second it looks like performances wont match up to the incredibly high standards Villa fans expect. Not to mention the fact they'd be keen to stick with the side they'd just got promoted. At their current sides if they stay up they've done well, if they came here and achieved that they'd be criticised by all and sundry, so I personally would undersand if they did turn us down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 He will inevitably be looking for another manager with in the next 6 -12 months. I don't think we will go down but crowds are dropping off drastically and those of us that do attend will increasingly start to get on the managers back and the inevitable will happen and he will be forced out. Whilst I completely agree with your take on things in general, unfortunately crowds are not significantly dropping off. Over 37,000 were there yesterday, which for a televised game the week before Christmas and following on from the performances during recent home games is borderline miraculous and I think shows Villa fans in a very good light. The overall average attendance is down, but not nearly dramatically enough to be seriously worrying Lerner and Faulkner. I still have my season ticket so it would be hypocritical of me to suggest people stay away, but for all of the protestations on messageboards, the core supporter base has still turned up anyway. Unless a huge number of people re-think things next summer, by which time they will not be in any doubt as to what will be served up under McLeish if, like me, they were lulled into thinking maybe he would be so determined to prove everybody wrong that he would produce a different style of football with the squad and resources at his disposal, falling gates are not going to be a factor in any decisions or actions taken be the Club. I am starting to think that our best hope is that the pressure from the stands and the protests against McLeish remaining in charge are so loud that both Club and manager will decide come the summer that it's best to part company when they recognise that this arrangement will simply never, ever work. But even this may be little more than hopeful thinking as Lerner and Faulkner are evidently so coccooned and McLeish seems so bloody-minded that things will simply linger on until we are finally pulled down into the relegation mire. It's easy to get drawn into hyperbole and extreme proclamations during times like these but I genuinely didn't feel the future was this bleak during O'Leary's last season in charge. This feels like the full season Graham Taylor was in charge for back in 2002-2003 but at least we all knew that as a man he still had the best interests of the Club at heart. Let's hope McLeish is as willing to admit to his limitations and fall on his sword as Taylor did when that season drew to a close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeps Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Question.... what happens when this wage bill is down. I mean where does it leave us? We have already shipped out NRC, Milner, Downing, Young, Luke Young, Makoun, Beye (kind of heard we are paying most of his wages), Carew, Osbourne, Salifou, Brad, Sidwell, Davies and we still need to reduce it?! I know Heskey, Collins, Warnock, Dunne & Ireland (boards fault that one) etc still earn big wages for how useless they may or may not be but we seem to have got rid of most of the 'higher' earners over the last 1-2 years. What happens when the board see's it as 'OK'? Will we sign anyone decent who will want a high wage or will we have to make do with lame joes of the footballing world (ie Steven Davis). Lost interest? I don't know Lost his mind? 100% Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Once it's down to an OK level we'll have to remain within that, so replace Bent on £60k a week with either another player on the saem or say 3 players on £20k a week. It's not just the players you've mention that are the problems, its Bent and Gabby on around £60k a week each, it's petrov and N'zog, every time we negotiate one of their contract and their wages go up the other look for a pay rise too. We may be able to keep some people on the £30-50k a week bracket but it all comes down to what our income is and what kind of numbers we want in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I personally think Lambert and Roger would see it as a hiding to nothing, we'd get a load of fans saying they weren't good enough, thay'd have their hands tied in terms of recruitment of playing staff and would be the instant scape goat the second it looks like performances wont match up to the incredibly high standards Villa fans expect. To be honest, I think there is a growing feeling that the supporters might be a lot more accomodating to potential other managers even if, for no better reason, the fact that they won't be McLeish. I think we would likely be just as well off had we gambled on a completely untested option with an association with the Club, such as Martin Laursen, and the fans would unquestionably be more patient with any such appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 Not nit-picking but he's been to at least 2 games : Norwich, Manure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Still can't believe that the Lerner dream ended so quickly and still stunned that he's managed to make so many terrible decisions to **** up his investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDrums Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 The club are emailing and ringing about this morning trying to flog tickets for the Arsenal game, and that isn't the first time as they did the same with Liverpool yesterday and United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Business in "Trying to maximise revenue shocker...." whatever next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 The club are emailing and ringing about this morning trying to flog tickets for the Arsenal game, and that isn't the first time as they did the same with Liverpool yesterday and United.Haha, what do they think we are, stupid? I learnt my lesson after the Man U game - I'm NEVER going to see Villa play a top 6 side again as long as McLeish is in charge. What's the point when we're not even going to try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 You're spot on there Mantis. Dont know why i'm bothering to drive up on Wednesday, there really is no point at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDrums Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Business in "Trying to maximise revenue shocker...." whatever next? It looks like you literally have to point out the obvious point with some people here. These games used to be sell-outs. Now they are ringing about offering discounts to people days before such games to try and fill the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Business in "Trying to maximise revenue shocker...." whatever next? It looks like you literally have to point out the obvious point with some people here. These games used to be sell-outs. Now they are ringing about offering discounts to people days before such games to try and fill the stadium. Yes thank you - I got that the first time. What exactly do you want the club to do...? apparently there isn't any money, so what? The club sits there and thinks, ah well 30k in the ground isn't too bad. Even if they flog another 2k tickets at £10 a pop, its another £20k they didn't have, plus whatever that 2k people spend on programmes, food, booze etc. So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Lerner obviously doesn't have a clue and the sooner he sells up the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I regret buying the ticket for the Arsenal game. Waste of money. I mean, first off the football will be shit with a defeatist attitude. Secondly, Randy can't even be bothered to turn up despite having the luxury to attend there for free with several privileges he hasn't earnt in his life. And thirdly, why should I and others keep funding the board who won't put it towards the team, but instead will waste it due to their ill thought decisions. Not only that but it'll no doubt end in their own personal back pockets anyway. Nah, this can't go on. This will be the last time I'll spend any of my money until I see some improvements in all sections. Also, I'll tell you something else. How much you wanna bet the first thing our yank friend asked regarding the match yesterday was not the scoreline, but the attedence? The greedy son of a bitch will no doubt have a smile on his face regardless of the scoreline and the performance he didn't see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Still can't believe that the Lerner dream ended so quickly and still stunned that he's managed to make so many terrible decisions to **** up his investment. One terrible decision, to give MON shit loads of money in the transfer market and allow him to negotiate player contracts. Everything that has followed is a consequence of that. And that is Mr Lerner's fault alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Think Lerner has been hurt by criticism he received for the Houllier appointment and the way General was treated by some people on here. He wanted Houllier to build something and i think when many fans got on his back it hurt him personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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