The Randy Lerner thread

[Big_John_10]

Lots of people were predicting the demise of Liverpool due to the mess that Hicks and Gillett had made of things, yet along came a new set of Americans, who as far as I'm aware aren't oil billionaires, and are now ticking along quite nicely.

Well, Lerner has made a complete mess of things, and we could with him selling up and buggering off.

Really a poor comparison - The new owner of Liverpool has done exactly the same thing Randy did at Villa when he came in. Even Dalglish is following what MO'N did - overpaying for (British) players - 20 mill for Downing 35 for Carroll, how much for henderson. Look good away from home, struggle to get the wins at home. Yep. How you can say MO'N and Randy were terrible and then use LFC as the evidence is mind boggling, mart.

There is nothing to suggest the liverpool owners will get it as wrong as we did and that daglish will walk out and be replaced by two useless managers.

Defending Lerner by predicting others are just as useless seems weak IMO.

[roadoftrinity]

Yes, but we're owned by Lerner. So for all the free scarves, there are £8m "management" charges and flogging off bits of land to nefarious offshore related companies. When are you going to realise that all the early gestures was nothing more than cynical marketing ploys?

That's the first I've heard of this, are these management charges just for Lerner?

[CI]

He's been charging a very healthy interest rate for every penny he's loaned the club since day one

He's effectively using us as a bank until he sells up

[bickster]

His families trust fund has been charging a much lower rate interest rate than commercially available for the money Randy borrowed from the trust fund to buy the club.

He's still paying that loan off as agreed

Fixed for truth

[Risso]

His families trust fund has been charging a much lower rate interest rate than commercially available for the money Randy borrowed from the trust fund to buy the club.

He's still paying that loan off as agreed

Fixed for truth

You haven't fixed it for anything of the sort. Paying off the loans as agreed? When did that happen?

[CI]

That's not my quote !!

[blandy]

The loans from the Trust have to be at fair rates. They are neither above or below fair market equivalent rates - they can't be, it would be illegal. The Trust is not run by Randy or his family, but by administrotors with a legal duty to protect the interests of the trus and all the beneficiaries.

The loans from the Trust have to have proper T&Cs including repayment dates and plans for repayment. They are not casual loans able to be manipulated or flexibly ignored.

[bickster]

His families trust fund has been charging a much lower rate interest rate than commercially available for the money Randy borrowed from the trust fund to buy the club.

He's still paying that loan off as agreed

Fixed for truth

You haven't fixed it for anything of the sort. Paying off the loans as agreed? When did that happen?

As I understood it, RL borrowed the money from the trust not the club and the first payment is due this summer isn't it?

[blandy]

There is nothing to suggest the liverpool owners will get it as wrong as we did and that daglish will walk out and be replaced by two useless managers.

Defending Lerner by predicting others are just as useless seems weak IMO.

I'm not doing that. Read what I wrote 0- Risso said Liverpool are getting along fine with John Henry replacing their two clowns Hicks and Gilette, and Risso says Randy is an idiot. I merely pointed out that him citing Liverpool getting along fine whereas Randy hasn't got a clue, is daft because Liverpool are doing exactly the same things as Randy did at the equivalent stage of his time at Villa. If Randy is a clown and idiot and buffoon for doing what he did, then you can't say that Henry is "fine" when he's doing the same things as Randy did.

[Risso]

There is nothing to suggest the liverpool owners will get it as wrong as we did and that daglish will walk out and be replaced by two useless managers.

Defending Lerner by predicting others are just as useless seems weak IMO.

I'm not doing that. Read what I wrote 0- Risso said Liverpool are getting along fine with John Henry replacing their two clowns Hicks and Gilette, and Risso says Randy is an idiot. I merely pointed out that him citing Liverpool getting along fine whereas Randy hasn't got a clue, is daft because Liverpool are doing exactly the same things as Randy did at the equivalent stage of his time at Villa. If Randy is a clown and idiot and buffoon for doing what he did, then you can't say that Henry is "fine" when he's doing the same things as Randy did.

I can indeed say that, because all the time Lerner was splurging huge amounts of cash on allowing O'Neill to buy whoever he likes, it's now obvious he couldn't afford it. Have you any evidence that Henry can't afford the amounts he is paying out, or that he plans to sell the decent players he's bought and not replace them? Finally, when is Emile Heskey going to be offered a 3 year contract on £65K a week?

[makouns_grin]

FFS find a more reliable article then!

One thing about Howell is he had the ear of some on the inside at Villa but what do I know eh?

Not around the time of Steve Stride leaving he didn't!

This Steve Stride we talk about, he is the same one you see in the Directors Box for most home matches? So upset at his leaving of his position he still comes to the match at the behest of the owner who dumped him and not only that, those clubs who would be queueing up for his services the following season because of his experience (which I don't doubt, nor his usefulness to these clubs) clearly employed him so quickly (I don't doubt there were offers btw).

Anyone ever thought that he actually thought "The time is right?"

Now I can find fault with Randy Lerner down many avenues in the last couple of seasons. I think the board has made quite a few mistakes along the way, some were part of a learning curve, some were plain silly but I don't for one minute think he's worse than Deadly, nor do I think, it's time for him to sell up and go. I think he's made some very poor decisions and some good ones.

I'm realistic enough to realise that quite soon the Premier League bubble might actually burst and in quite a spectacular style. The next Sky deal may be less than the current one, they and NI have more than enough troubles that I shouldn't need to expound upon. The country (in fact the whole world virtually) is in an extremely volatile economic situation where a.t.m. there are few winners and in such times the frivolity that is football will undoubtedly suffer. RL cannot afford to compete with the CL clubs right now, that much is obvious but what I think he is doing is preparing the club to compete when the bubble does burst. And Yes the appointment of Mcleish was not the ideal appointment but it was an appointment that kind of signalled the way we're looking to the short term future in predicting a bit of a slump. We tried the throwing cash at it approach during the good times, it nearly worked but world economics kinda intervened (and Man Citeh). Even the biggest clubs in the land are struggling a bit comparatively right now. Want a Man Utd Season Ticket? they'll sell you one tomorrow, same for Liverpool and that next SKY deal is crucial to the sport in this country. Few clubs can survive a big drop in TV money as well as the current attendance drops around the country. Football needs to wise up, it needs to charge fans less, substantially less and we'll wait and see if the club drops its prices (they need to) but those clubs preparing now will benefit if the bubble bursts, which I think is inevitable (other's may disagree). If that is what RL is looking at then he may actually in time be considered to have foresight.

I still think McLeish's appointment signalled this in the summer. I wasn't a fan of the idea, he wouldn't have been my choice and even now, I think he's a poor manager in some respects but I also think he's kind of the right manager for us right now. Yes he makes some cock ups, like the team selection against Spuds, he got that completely wrong but so did the players, they looked on the whole like they didn't give a shit either and I think that is symptomatic of the whole football culture right now, the players at Villa are no different with some exceptions. But you can't just get rid of most of the team overnight, just like you can't just dump a manager after 12 games or get on the owners back after such a short period of a downturn.

The wages thing may be sorted to a degree next summer, with quite a few players at the end of their contracts and replacements will be needed, lets just see what happens then. I for one don't think we'll get relegated

this season despite what some people think, our squad IS better than that.

We're in a dark place right now (ish) but I don't think getting rid of the manager or protesting against the owner it the correct and constructive thing to do right now, the current strategy might actually be the correct one in the medium to long term, in the mean time we just have to grin and bear it.

Sticky!

[Big_John_10]

If Randy is a clown and idiot and buffoon for doing what he did, then you can't say that Henry is "fine" when he's doing the same things as Randy did.

But you don't know if he's doing the same thing. Will he let their finances spiral out of control leading to an abrupt stop to all spending, losing top players and seeing a manager walk out?

For all you know they have a clear plan and will keep their spending under control and keep building and building while supporting a good manager.

Like I said just because randy is useless doesn't mean anyone doing something similar will mess it up just as badly.

[juanpabloangel18]

LFC's income is god-knows-how-much-more than ours is. Just a reminder.

[prmort]

His families trust fund has been charging a much lower rate interest rate than commercially available for the money Randy borrowed from the trust fund to buy the club.

He's still paying that loan off as agreed

Fixed for truth

So......Randy borrowed the money, and AVFC are paying it back and the interest or just the interest.?

Isn't that what the Glazers did at Manu...?

Who paid for the tattoo.?

[Bazdavies79]

It's all very well talking about what great things Liverpool might achieve, can anybody give an example of a club who actually have consistently got it right?

[Risso]

His families trust fund has been charging a much lower rate interest rate than commercially available for the money Randy borrowed from the trust fund to buy the club.

He's still paying that loan off as agreed

Fixed for truth

You haven't fixed it for anything of the sort. Paying off the loans as agreed? When did that happen?

As I understood it, RL borrowed the money from the trust not the club and the first payment is due this summer isn't it?

Of course he didn't borrow money from the club, he's lent money to the club, from the trust. And no, the first set of loans are due for repayment in 2016.

I'm sure it was very kind of you to "fix" that quote, but it's maybe better you get the facts right when you do so!

[bannedfromHandV]

His families trust fund has been charging a much lower rate interest rate than commercially available for the money Randy borrowed from the trust fund to buy the club.

He's still paying that loan off as agreed

Fixed for truth

You haven't fixed it for anything of the sort. Paying off the loans as agreed? When did that happen?

As I understood it, RL borrowed the money from the trust not the club and the first payment is due this summer isn't it?

Of course he didn't borrow money from the club, he's lent money to the club, from the trust. And no, the first set of loans are due for repayment in 2016.

I'm sure it was very kind of you to "fix" that quote, but it's maybe better you get the facts right when you do so!

Oh right, and of course coming from you this is therefore absolute fact.

I dare say you know no more than most on here and less than some.

[blandy]

...all the time Lerner was splurging huge amounts of cash on allowing O'Neill to buy whoever he likes, it's now obvious he couldn't afford it.

No, it's now obvious he can't afford to keep doing it. It's also now obvious that there are rules against it. And these UEFA fair play rules also apply to Liverpool. No club can keep throwing money at the thing, rich owner, poor owner, idiot owner or genius owner.

Have you any evidence that Henry can't afford the amounts he is paying out, or that he plans to sell the decent players he's bought and not replace them?

Why do I need evidence he can or can't afford it? As I said they're not permitted to keep doing it. They'll have to stop, as Randy has had to stop.

Finally, when is Emile Heskey going to be offered a 3 year contract on £65K a week?

Liverpool have already been there, mate.

[Risso]

His families trust fund has been charging a much lower rate interest rate than commercially available for the money Randy borrowed from the trust fund to buy the club.

He's still paying that loan off as agreed

Fixed for truth

You haven't fixed it for anything of the sort. Paying off the loans as agreed? When did that happen?

As I understood it, RL borrowed the money from the trust not the club and the first payment is due this summer isn't it?

Of course he didn't borrow money from the club, he's lent money to the club, from the trust. And no, the first set of loans are due for repayment in 2016.

I'm sure it was very kind of you to "fix" that quote, but it's maybe better you get the facts right when you do so!

Oh right, and of course coming from you this is therefore absolute fact.

I dare say you know no more than most on here and less than some.

Sigh. As ever, the facts are there are in black and white in the company accounts, which even somebody like you should be able to find.

[John_Lerwill]

What other clubs do is up to them - what's happened at VP is the issue.

I think it's good to look at other clubs and their recent history to get a perspective on where we are.

In the right context that's perfectly correct, but you're taking my comments out of context.

I was speaking of how RL had set a standard and then dropped it in such away that it's left a lot of people bemused - that's an issue that does not concern comparison with other clubs.