AntrimBlack Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 People do have short memories on Ellis, the man who couldn't find the cash to buy Erik Bakke. as opposed to lerner the man who couldnt afford to give us some cash in the january windows to try and help against relegation No no no, not couldn't afford. He chose not to. The same way he chose not the previous January and the one before that. Just checking did we get relegated? And I thought we brought 2 players in in January? One a first choice LB. And another a back up striker who hardly played. Unless they played for nothing of course. Are you really defending the level of investment given to the manager the past few January windows? Twisting the discussion. The discussion was about the relative merits of Ellis and Lerner. I do not think any right-minded person could think Ellis was a better custodian than Lerner. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 People do have short memories on Ellis, the man who couldn't find the cash to buy Erik Bakke.as opposed to lerner the man who couldnt afford to give us some cash in the january windows to try and help against relegationNo no no, not couldn't afford. He chose not to. The same way he chose not the previous January and the one before that.Just checking did we get relegated? And I thought we brought 2 players in in January? One a first choice LB. And another a back up striker who hardly played. Unless they played for nothing of course. Are you really defending the level of investment given to the manager the past few January windows? Twisting the discussion. The discussion was about the relative merits of Ellis and Lerner. I do not think any right-minded person could think Ellis was a better custodian than Lerner. In my life I haven't experienced any years worse than the last 3. Makes him better for my experiences as a villa fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 When he sold up we were without doubt in a worse position than the current situation. Is that true? I'd say we have a worse squad. DOL was sacked and we've got a manager most fans can't stand. On top of that we've just had a season much worse than Doug's final year. Making assumptions. No it's based on polls in the paper, the general attitude towards him at home games and the away fans turning on him during the last few away games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Randy Lerner has done his spend and he ain't spending anymore. I'm not sure what part of that some folk don't get. He has given managers money and we are where we are in terms of squad. No new manager would want to come to Villa.....Because he is done spending money on players that are not up to the standard required....he's out, he's had enough. Until we get a new mug/sorry owner that brings in a manager that can buy prudently and give an owner a reason to be cheerful.....then nothings going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Lerner was better than Ellis at providing funds Ellis was better than Lerner at selecting managers.....by a gnats dick. depending on how you look at who signed O'Neill Edited May 21, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 When he sold up we were without doubt in a worse position than the current situation. Is that true? I'd say we have a worse squad. DOL was sacked and we've got a manager most fans can't stand. On top of that we've just had a season much worse than Doug's final year. Our squad was much better back then. We had Laurson, Mellberg, Bouma, Barry, Cahill. Those are the ones i can remember from the top of my head. We were heading one way under DOL and Doug and it wasn't up. We couldn't afford to loan Bakke if I remember correctly. Do you remember the players statement and subsequent turmoil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 When he sold up we were without doubt in a worse position than the current situation.Is that true? I'd say we have a worse squad. DOL was sacked and we've got a manager most fans can't stand. On top of that we've just had a season much worse than Doug's final year.Our squad was much better back then. We had Laurson, Mellberg, Bouma, Barry, Cahill. Those are the ones i can remember from the top of my head. We were heading one way under DOL and Doug and it wasn't up. We couldn't afford to loan Bakke if I remember correctly. Do you remember the players statement and subsequent turmoil? Are we heading in a different direction now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 No but we are in a better position imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I still can't see how great Lerner has been. Ellis could have pumped a lot more money into the playing side of the club if he hadn't had to oversee the rebuilding of Villa Park. But, he did give a lot of money to John Gregory for players. OK, he did bottle it when he wouldn't give the money for Juninho but he did give a lot of money back then. Lerner has just overseen a farcical last 4 seasons that are probably the worst I have witnessed as a Villa fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarpie Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I still can't see how great Lerner has been. Ellis could have pumped a lot more money into the playing side of the club if he hadn't had to oversee the rebuilding of Villa Park. But, he did give a lot of money to John Gregory for players. OK, he did bottle it when he wouldn't give the money for Juninho but he did give a lot of money back then. Lerner has just overseen a farcical last 4 seasons that are probably the worst I have witnessed as a Villa fan. I think Ellis mistimed his loosening the purse strings...imagine if he would've gotten targets BFR wanted who was claimedly after Klinsmann and Roy Keane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 People do have short memories on Ellis, the man who couldn't find the cash to buy Erik Bakke. as opposed to lerner the man who couldnt afford to give us some cash in the january windows to try and help against relegation No no no, not couldn't afford. He chose not to. The same way he chose not the previous January and the one before that. Just checking did we get relegated? And I thought we brought 2 players in in January? One a first choice LB. And another a back up striker who hardly played. Unless they played for nothing of course. Are you really defending the level of investment given to the manager the past few January windows? Twisting the discussion. The discussion was about the relative merits of Ellis and Lerner. I do not think any right-minded person could think Ellis was a better custodian than Lerner. In my life I haven't experienced any years worse than the last 3. Makes him better for my experiences as a villa fan. People do have short memories on Ellis, the man who couldn't find the cash to buy Erik Bakke. as opposed to lerner the man who couldnt afford to give us some cash in the january windows to try and help against relegation No no no, not couldn't afford. He chose not to. The same way he chose not the previous January and the one before that. Just checking did we get relegated? And I thought we brought 2 players in in January? One a first choice LB. And another a back up striker who hardly played. Unless they played for nothing of course. Are you really defending the level of investment given to the manager the past few January windows? Twisting the discussion. The discussion was about the relative merits of Ellis and Lerner. I do not think any right-minded person could think Ellis was a better custodian than Lerner. In my life I haven't experienced any years worse than the last 3. Makes him better for my experiences as a villa fan. As compared to the 20 years under Ellis? You cannot be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I still can't see how great Lerner has been. Ellis could have pumped a lot more money into the playing side of the club if he hadn't had to oversee the rebuilding of Villa Park. But, he did give a lot of money to John Gregory for players. OK, he did bottle it when he wouldn't give the money for Juninho but he did give a lot of money back then. Lerner has just overseen a farcical last 4 seasons that are probably the worst I have witnessed as a Villa fan. I still can't see how great Lerner has been. Ellis could have pumped a lot more money into the playing side of the club if he hadn't had to oversee the rebuilding of Villa Park. But, he did give a lot of money to John Gregory for players. OK, he did bottle it when he wouldn't give the money for Juninho but he did give a lot of money back then. Lerner has just overseen a farcical last 4 seasons that are probably the worst I have witnessed as a Villa fan. If Ellis had retained control, I am convinced we would have been relegated 7 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) I still can't see how great Lerner has been. Ellis could have pumped a lot more money into the playing side of the club if he hadn't had to oversee the rebuilding of Villa Park. But, he did give a lot of money to John Gregory for players. OK, he did bottle it when he wouldn't give the money for Juninho but he did give a lot of money back then. Lerner has just overseen a farcical last 4 seasons that are probably the worst I have witnessed as a Villa fan. He also had to oversee an austerity programme never deemed so necessary in the history of the football club....mainly due to a catalogue of players not producing their transfer value or meriting their wages. I can't remember a time in the history of the football club where so much money was spent on so many players that simply did not make their worth. It has been a mitigating disaster. Edited May 21, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 No but we are in a better position imo Could you elaborate? Not being facetious. Well kind of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I still can't see how great Lerner has been. Ellis could have pumped a lot more money into the playing side of the club if he hadn't had to oversee the rebuilding of Villa Park. But, he did give a lot of money to John Gregory for players. OK, he did bottle it when he wouldn't give the money for Juninho but he did give a lot of money back then. Lerner has just overseen a farcical last 4 seasons that are probably the worst I have witnessed as a Villa fan. You do know that Lerner was using his own money, whereas Ellis was using the Club's money and taking a big salary out of the Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 O'Neil took Lerner for a mugg! Yes Lerner was very nieve to trust O'Neil with his money, but he blew it up the wall with amateur management, like he could only gain success paying regular players i.e Beye (one of the worst signings in Villa's history) huge amounts of money, for sub standard football. A very limited manager other owners have seem straight through him. This started the demise of AVFC. It is my belief that almost any other manager would have gained the same amount success without wasting probably 3 quarters of the 140 million was it, that ONeil blew!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 To be fair in the instance of Beye, wasn't he Newcastle's player of the season before we bought him? Just can't predict some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I was 7 years old when we last won the league. 8 when we won the European Cup so even though I was as supporter both were slightly before my time and I probably really got into going regularly around 1985 and I got my first season ticket in 1988 and have had one ever since. I have been to four cup finals. Three under Ellis as chairman one under Lerner. I have seen us win two league cups with other notable achievements in my 26 years as a season ticket holder seeing us finish runners up twice. There have been some great European nights in that time and a fair few top 6 finishes. If I had to judge overall under which chairman I have witnessed the greater relative success then I would have to say Ellis. That doesn't make him a good owner by the way far from it. I'd probably say the main reason we did well for periods under him is that he made some very good managerial appointments, certainly in Taylor, Atkinson and Little, and money wasn't quite the big influence it is now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandaq Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Ellis was a great man imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Whilst I have every understanding of the power of money in the transfer market there has been many instances where it hasn't always had its own way. I have never been an advocate of today is different in the vein that money dictates in every instance and we all know that while richest teams in the world do well, they don't always win the best prizes. History does also repeat itself and there is not much new in the world.....just dressed up a bit differently. They were saying in the early 1900's the teams that spend the most win win everything, just look at Aston Villa, they buy all the best. Athletico and Liverpool have proved that slightly lesser funded teams can still challenge despite how much their managers find it harder. Its about having some reasonable funds a thoughtful, determined manager and a structure and strategy to work to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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