The Randy Lerner thread

[penguin]

I really don't get the point of the finacial fairplay rules now, surely the damage has already been done, isn't it simply just ensuring the segregation of the 'normal' clubs from the clubs that got the mega rich owners in before it was passed? A discussion for another thread I suppose.

[suttonpaul]

John,

 

Firstly Ireland was a like for like swap with Milner in Faulkner's head whist making 18m in cash I would call that cutting back.

N'Zogbia was brought for less than half the price of Downing as a replacement that is again a saving at the time.

Bent was brought to score some goals to keep us up again you can see the reason behind it.

Where it becomes odd is Given, Makoun and Hutton.

 

What smacks you between the eyes though is how poor those players turned out to be but that is neither here or there we are talking hindsight again.

 

That aside the point I was making earlier was the players being sold/released before Lambert was here.

 

 

Villarocker,

 

That was a LOW blow

 

Nerumburg,

 

 

It's a 45m euro loss over 3 years IF the owner puts the money into the club to cover it, if not it is 5m!

 

In the premier league it is 105M pounds over 3 years if the owner puts the money in, I cant remember the exact figure if he doesn't but 15m is ringing a bell in my head.

 

So with that in mind you can see the significance.

 

 

Penguin,

 

Bit off topic but it's better late than never we cant keep going on with clubs not being run sustainably and competitions so open to some billionaires wishes.

Edited February 13, 2014 by suttonpaul

[briggsy]

Another thing people need to understand with regards FFP is that it won't definately be a points deduction, both rules state that a number of sanctions can be imposed, they won't have the balls to deduct points they will just dish out fines which the clubs with rich owners will happily take

I believe the biggest mistake Randy Lerner has made since he took over is that he believed that all clubs were going to comply with FFP properly, while everyone else knew clubs would find loopholes and ways round it

Edited February 14, 2014 by briggsy

[suttonpaul]

I don't doubt people will break the rules and get away with it at first but I also believe they will tighten it quickly and make an example within a few years of the first rule breakers. I don't want that to be us.

[ozvillafan]

I don't doubt people will break the rules and get away with it at first but I also believe they will tighten it quickly and make an example within a few years of the first rule breakers. I don't want that to be us.

 

At the 2002 world cup, FIFA stated they would stamp out "simulation" in the competition.

 

Rivaldo, playing for Brazil in their first group game against Turkey, is time wasting before taking a corner. The ball is kicked at him and hits him in the leg. He goes down like a sack of potatoes, clutching his face. The Turkish player is sent off. FIFA has it's first test case.....

 

... which, seeing as it is Brazil and not a "lesser" football nation, they decide to slap a ridiculously small fee on the player (considering what he earns) after finding him guilty of simulation.

 

No change to the red card.

No suspensions.

No example made.

 

Nothing has *ever* changed regarding FIFA's "stance" on simulation since then. It has been swept under the carpet.

 

Since Blatter is still in charge now as he was then, do you really think they will *ever* come down hard on breaking the FFP? They have shown they care little for "bringing the game into disrepute" when it comes to "big" forces in football.

[P3te]

FIFA isn't over ffp, UEFA is

[Big_John_10]

I think FFFP is a convenient rule that excuses past mistakes and lack of future ambition.

I also think as Lerner has allowed other teams to financially catch and over take us it makes the task of being a competitive team harder.

[Big_John_10]

Firstly Ireland was a like for like swap with Milner in Faulkner's head whist making 18m in cash I would call that cutting back.

N'Zogbia was brought for less than half the price of Downing as a replacement that is again a saving at the time.

Bent was brought to score some goals to keep us up again you can see the reason behind it.

Where it becomes odd is Given, Makoun and Hutton.

What smacks you between the eyes though is how poor those players turned out to be but that is neither here or there we are talking hindsight again.

That aside the point I was making earlier was the players being sold/released before Lambert was here.

We didn't have to cut back on transfer fees. We were told it was wages that were the issue when MON left. And all we did for the following two years was continue to sign poor players on massive contracts.

[andyjsg]

Firstly Ireland was a like for like swap with Milner in Faulkner's head whist making 18m in cash I would call that cutting back.

N'Zogbia was brought for less than half the price of Downing as a replacement that is again a saving at the time.

Bent was brought to score some goals to keep us up again you can see the reason behind it.

Where it becomes odd is Given, Makoun and Hutton.

What smacks you between the eyes though is how poor those players turned out to be but that is neither here or there we are talking hindsight again.

That aside the point I was making earlier was the players being sold/released before Lambert was here.

We didn't have to cut back on transfer fees. We were told it was wages that were the issue when MON left. And all we did for the following two years was continue to sign poor players on massive contracts.

A great argument in hindsight but other than maybe Hutton, the likes of Given, Makoun and Bent were very popular signings with the fans and had every right to be as past had showed quality.

[ozvillafan]

I think FFFP is a convenient rule that excuses past mistakes and lack of future ambition.

I also think as Lerner has allowed other teams to financially catch and over take us it makes the task of being a competitive team harder.

 

Indeed. Since we know clubs like Man City will never adhere to the rules nor ever be called to account - why should we do any different?

 

However, the FFP is definitely a convenient line for our austerity measures. That's not to say we didn't need to cut wages - it's just easy to point to FFP as an excuse.

[Big_John_10]

Firstly Ireland was a like for like swap with Milner in Faulkner's head whist making 18m in cash I would call that cutting back.

N'Zogbia was brought for less than half the price of Downing as a replacement that is again a saving at the time.

Bent was brought to score some goals to keep us up again you can see the reason behind it.

Where it becomes odd is Given, Makoun and Hutton.

What smacks you between the eyes though is how poor those players turned out to be but that is neither here or there we are talking hindsight again.

That aside the point I was making earlier was the players being sold/released before Lambert was here.

We didn't have to cut back on transfer fees. We were told it was wages that were the issue when MON left. And all we did for the following two years was continue to sign poor players on massive contracts.

A great argument in hindsight but other than maybe Hutton, the likes of Given, Makoun and Bent were very popular signings with the fans and had every right to be as past had showed quality.

But that's not the point. We were told the issue under Mon was that the wage bill was too high yet we then went and offered more huge contracts to new signings.

[villabromsgrove]

Randy and PF were in awe of Mon and Houllier. They only started to impose themselves with McLeish and then Lambert. When you have very little personal experience of the job, it's easy to be led by highly respected "names." 

[Richard]

I agree John and we were told that it was wages not fees

 

Typically,  and this hasn't always been the case with us,  though the higher the fee the better the quality of footballer and the better the quality of footballer the higher the wages.  I know we have many cases to prove that wrong at Villa but if you are looking to reduce wages you typically are looking at the less established less proven players and they come with lower fees.

 

So I'm not sure it is ,  or was,  simply a case of one or the other

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

I think FFFP is a convenient rule that excuses past mistakes and lack of future ambition.

I also think as Lerner has allowed other teams to financially catch and over take us it makes the task of being a competitive team harder.

Indeed. Since we know clubs like Man City will never adhere to the rules nor ever be called to account - why should we do any different?

The review of the first two monitoring periods hasn't been done yet so that's why they haven't been called to account. Nobody knows what's going to happen yet.

Something people are missing with FFP is that it's easier for the richest clubs to bypass the rules, less so for everyone else.

Man City signed huge related party sponsorship deals with Etihad. PSG signed a huge deal with the Qatar Tourist Board Authority.

Who do we sign a deal with?

[AntrimBlack]

The Board have been trying to bring the club finances under control, which was necessary, but they have, I think, been citing FFP as the reason, at least in part.To be fair, the `big teams' will never be called to account if they break the rules, teams like us, however, you may be sure, will be called to account.

The austerity cannot be maintained much longer without putting the club in danger, and I would see this summer as the tipping point.

[ozvillafan]

The review of the first two monitoring periods hasn't been done yet so that's why they haven't been called to account. Nobody knows what's going to happen yet.

Something people are missing with FFP is that it's easier for the richest clubs to bypass the rules, less so for everyone else.

Man City signed huge related party sponsorship deals with Etihad. PSG signed a huge deal with the Qatar Tourist Board Authority.

Who do we sign a deal with?

 

 

And this is just my point. These "huge" deals wouldn't have anything to do with a rich oil barren who just happens to own a club paying them for their "sponsorship" deals, would it?

 

Of course not. Even if it was proven, what are FIFA going to do about it? Bugger all. FFP my arse.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

You're correct. They're brazenly breaking the rules because they're rich/powerful enough to be able to.

You asked why we should be any different - it's because we don't have an owner like Mansour (and the Nayhan family) who has various UAE owned entities to sign sponsorship deals with.

If you spend huge amounts, then you need a way/ways of boosting your income so that you bring yourself back within the FFP rules. The most obvious ways to do this is by artificially enhancing your revenue streams through dodgy sponsorship deals.

Man City think, and have stated, that they'll be within the parameters of the FFP rules, but they'll have achieved this in a way which is beyond the possibilities of a club like ours.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[Big_John_10]

So we can't compete with city and PSG and a few other massive clubs. It was like that before FFFP.

At the moment we can't compete with the majority of teams in the league. FFFP is not an excuse for that to continue.

[tomaspg]

Werent we one of the few clubs who were opposed to the ffp rules?

[suttonpaul]

Yes.